Dominion Vs Military

[Cainehill]

Arryn said:
2. Your dominion will not spread for 'free'. Dominion spreads outwards a maximum of one province away from dominion sources (temples, prophet, pretender).

Ouch. So, all the temples I built in back provinces in several games are useless, except for raising the max dominion push of the pretender and prophet?

[Arryn]

Cainehill said:
Ouch. So, all the temples I built in back provinces in several games are useless, except for raising the max dominion push of the pretender and prophet?

If what Nagot says is true (and I see no reason to doubt his veracity), then Ceremony's doc is in serious need of amending, and those of us who've relied upon it for the conduct of our campaigns may have wasted a great deal of time and wealth. Contrary to the doc, if a province's dominion "fills up", it will continue to spill over into successive provinces ad infinitum, in an expanding ripple, without the need for a "temple check" in that, or a directly-adjacent, province. This is the best way to explain dominion spread as Nagot is asserting. The only other way, that of the game checking for dominion push from a source out to *all* provinces, for each and every check, makes even less sense and would eat up enormous amounts of CPU time.

[deccan]

Maybe dominion generated by temples is handled differently than that generated by pretenders / prophets. Unlikely, but possible.

I can attest that in SP games on large maps my dominion can go a long, long way until it "hits" a wall of black candles and then stops.

[Arralen]

xxxxxx deleted wrong info - sorry, folks xxxxxxxxxxxx


Personally, I have seen dom "wander" FOUR indie provinces from my starting location (no pretenders/prophet ever walked into that direction) in the game (SP) I'm just playing.

[Agrajag]

Just wanted to report a bit on my findings in a 1on1 game I had against the AI
My dominion score (in the making of the pretender) was very low, I'd say around 1-3.
I lost due to no dominion when my furthest province from his nearest province was ATLEAST 5 provinces away.
Just thought you should know.

[Cohen]

The assumption that your domain spread to max 2 provinces away from the source is absolutely false.

How to see this?
Create a God with 10 Dominion, create a game with this god and another human god.
Make him hosting (without playing) for a lot of turns, and then check. So you'll see how the dominion with spread with capitol and god only, without moving them
I got 50 turns, and the domain was in provinces far away from my capitol. (5 provinces away it reached for now)

[deccan]

Even so and even in SP, pushing dominion can be important. As mentioned, the AI does tend to spam temples. In my current game, I didn't let that bother me, and I had negative dominion 2 or 3 provinces deep inside my territory. Then he cast "Dark Skies", and all of a sudden my troops has like morale or 7 and 8. Ouch.

[Boron]

Cohen said:
The assumption that your domain spread to max 2 provinces away from the source is absolutely false.

How to see this?
Create a God with 10 Dominion, create a game with this god and another human god.
Make him hosting (without playing) for a lot of turns, and then check. So you'll see how the dominion with spread with capitol and god only, without moving them
I got 50 turns, and the domain was in provinces far away from my capitol. (5 provinces away it reached for now)

yep very true . i tested it myself now too . probably the temple spreads work the same way too .
so far i too believed as Arryn the 2 province rule from the mentioned dominionguide.pdf .
hm this leads to new interesting possibilities :

only build as much temples until you reach dominionstrengh of 10 ( so 10 when you start with dominion 8 etc. ) .

furthermore i think when you have maximum dominion in a province the dominionspread check always wanders further to provinces with not maximum dominion strenghts .

so in theory playing as mictlan there should be no big difference when playing with max dominion when spreading dominion via 5 blood sacrifices near your capitol temples or in temples near the front .
only the center of maximum dominionstrengh should vary but total dominion strengh should be the same with both methods or ?


in general you can put up the rule then i think :
build as many temples as you need to reach dominionstrength of 10 and all additional temples are only optional when you can afford but not neccessary .

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Arryn said:
...if a province's dominion "fills up", it will continue to spill over into successive provinces ad infinitum, in an expanding ripple,

There's no need for adjacent provinces to completely fill up for your dominion to expand further. In the aforementioned testbed after 100 turns, although my capital and the surrounding provinces had reached max dominion (10), it was only about 5-6 average 4 provinces away. Interestingly enough, the farthest province (11 away from the capital) showed a dominion of 2, while it connected to my 'dominion area' thru provinces where the dominion was only 1.

without the need for a "temple check" in that, or a directly-adjacent, province. This is the best way to explain dominion spread as Nagot is asserting.

FYI, I made a similar testbed with 2 nations, one (let's call it A) had a dominion of 10, the other (B) had a dominion of 8 + 9 extra temples (so 10 temples with one in the capital, ie an effective dominion of 10). I placed the capitals in opposite corners on a large map. Both dominions spreaded at a steady rate, with B spreading marginally faster. When the 2 dominions came into contact, B started to overrun A, and slowly pushed it back to its capital. At the time I stopped the experiment (after 100s of turns), B's dominion was about 10+ times as big as A's.

I have to say I ran this testbed in the early days of Dom:PPP, but from what I've seen I don't think the mechanics of dominion spread have changed, so I believe you could get similar results if you conduct the same experiment in Dom 2.

[The Panther]

Nagot Gick Fel said:
I made a similar testbed with 2 nations, one (let's call it A) had a dominion of 10, the other (B) had a dominion of 8 + 9 extra temples (so 10 temples with one in the capital, ie an effective dominion of 10). I placed the capitals in opposite corners on a large map. Both dominions spreaded at a steady rate, with B spreading marginally faster. When the 2 dominions came into contact, B started to overrun A, and slowly pushed it back to its capital. At the time I stopped the experiment (after 100s of turns), B's dominion was about 10+ times as big as A's.

This seems very easy to explain to me. Each temple is equal to your max dominion spread when pushing dominion. In this example, both nations had 30 for god and 10 for home province push. But A had only 10 for the single temple push while B had 10 temples at 10 each spread or 100, resulting in a whopping 90 additional dominion spread above B.

I think, in fact, that a 10 base dominion selection with 10 temples is exactly equal to an 8 base with 10 temples. The dominion spread should be identical, once B catches up to A by achieving 10 in the home province.

On a small map, high dominion is very important since you may not get the 19 extra provinces to increase your max dominion by 4 with mass templing. On a large map or with only a few players in the game, you might as well get low dominion and just plan on building lots of temples per the typical AI strategy.

My two cents worth anyway.