2004 Presidential Election.

[csebal]

Well, i hate to discuss politics, as it mostly leads to flame wars, but i got something on the topic a few months ago from a friend, i tought it may be worth sharing

GEORGE W. BUSH

The White House
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue NW
Washington, DC 20500
202-456-1111

president@whitehouse.gov

LAW ENFORCEMENT:
I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been lost and is not available.

MILITARY:
I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard I avoided combat duty in Vietnam.

COLLEGE:
I graduated from Yale University with a C- average. I was an active cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:
I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. Therefore, I began a career in the oil business in Midland, Texas, in 1975. I bought an oil company, but found no oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt just after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal which acquired land using taxpayer money. With campaign help from my father and donations from our right-wing friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:
I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas Treasury by billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history.

With assistance from my brother, governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President after losing the election by possibly 500,000 votes.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT:
I am the first President in US history to enter office with a criminal record. I spent the US surplus and successfully bankrupted the U.S.Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S.history. I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month
period. I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continued every month throughout my Presidency to date.

I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her. I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time US and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S.History,Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Court during the election decision of 2000. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating any one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history.

I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history. I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. I appointed more convicted criminals to administration than any President in U.S. history. I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States Government.

I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history. I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission. I withdrew the U.S.from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention

I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history. I
garnered the most sympathy for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world, the largest failure of diplomacy in world history. I have set the
all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest main public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.

I have invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost to taxpayers of over one billion dollars per week. I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, preemptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation (under the guise of searching for Weapons of Mass Destruction). I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens, and the world community. In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq, then blamed the
lies on our British friends. I am now supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. This is to fulfill my so far failed pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein to justice.

I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families -- in war time. I am also the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%)
view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security.

RECORDS AND REFERENCES:
All records of my tenure as governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view. All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All records or minutes
from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review.

PLEASE CONSIDER ME WHEN VOTING IN 2004.

I'm not from the US, so i cant confirm the details about internal politics and stuff written in that email snippet, but i can tell you, that this one is painfully true:
"I am also the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security."

From the outside, Bush seems like a bullying jackass, who pays no attention to international laws or treaties, so basically doesnt gives sh*t about international politics. For him, there seem to be two sides: with me, or against me..

Considering the ammount of 'anti-planet' bombs he has at hand, this is more than scary.

That kind of politics will one day break the bond between the EU and the USA, and im not sure we wanna live trough that, no matter which continent we live on.

Take the current war for example: it has nothing to do with terrorism, that may have been the causus belli, the reason for the war, but i think the 'evidence' the whole war was based on was already proved wrong.

What happened? The Intelligence Agency apologized for the mistake, and the war went on.

The only reason Bush has a chance is, that its not the world that has to elect the new US president, but the people living there. I just hope they make the right choice.

The above post is not intended to offend anyone: my only problem with the USA to date is its president, which can - and hopefully will - change soon.

[Mephisto]

*Moderator mode /on*
Hi all!
As most of us know, all of this has been beaten to death already in other threads and I really see no connection to SEIV here. I will move the thread to the general discussion area where it belongs and leave a shadow here. And, please, remember, keep it civil, different people have different views on the world.
*Moderator mode /off*

[rextorres]

I was a Republican way back when until I realized that unless my personal income grew to over $200,000 a year or I was willing to become a born-again christian the Republican party had nothing to offer me.

Anyway

- I can't afford to send my kids to private school so I'd like to have well funded schools with a small student ratio
- I'd like there to be enough police so that they show up within five minutes if I am in trouble
- I believe in a strong military
- When there's a fire there should be someone to put it out
- I hate potholes in the street so I want there to be money to pay for these
- I'd like my tap water to be drinkable
- All the money I've put into social security and medicare I want paid back with a monthly stipend if I make it to retirement
- The food I and my child eats should be safe to eat
- I want the homeless to have a place to go because most of the homeless aren't mentally compitant to take care of themselves

I rely on the government to provide these and similar sorts of functions.

I am told by the newspaper that I paid about a $1000 less in income tax Last year although looking at my taxes I paid about the same - still the loss of any of the above line items is worth way more to me than that $1000.

With Bush's tax cuts, however, none of these functions will be possible in the near future because the country will be bankrupt.

That's why I am not voting for Bush.

A few other things

- I am still trying to understand why it is that the NRA et.al. think that banning assault rifles is a bad thing.
- It's also hard to figure out why people are against raising the mpg of vehicles when it would lower our dependence on foreign oil and the technology is readily available so that even SUVs could benefit.
- What's wrong with wanting clean air? I grew up in Southern California and no the value of it.
- Why should someone be allowed to throw a stick of gum on the streets would it then be OK to throw a bag of garbage on the street too?
- Why is it that a fetus is only valuable until it is born but then services to help the born child are being cut?
- Isn't the death penalty taking a human life? - If that's the logic behind being against abortion shouldn't you be against the death penalty as well?
- I don't know why someone would want to cut down a 2000 year old tree
- Since most outdoor places will be visited before I visit them I'd like to have an approximation of the experience that the first person had. People who ride ATV ruin that for the rest of us

[csebal]

I can understand your concerns about internal affairs, as we have our own - although on a less smaller scale, we are a smaller country after all - similar problems here in our own country.

What you can't see - or dont care about - is how the USA looks for the rest of the world. Bush may be better in internal affairs, but on the international level, he failed terribly.

Then again, would i be in your place, i would probably choose the one i profit from most. As an outsider i hope the one you choose will not be Bush - after all, i would hate if WW3 would happen in my life. Even the idea, that Bush may be using - no matter how small - nuclear weapons against his enemies makes me think about leaving the planet on the next colony ship.

[Jack Simth]

rextorres said:
- I am still trying to understand why it is that the NRA et.al. think that banning assault rifles is a bad thing.

Keeping in mind that you are talking about orginizations of individuals, and that specific reasons for individuals vary widely, I know of three basic reasons:

For some, it's a matter of caution (some would say paranoia). If assault weapons are Banned, what's to stop them from banning all firearms? If all firearms are successfully eliminated, what's to stop the government from voting themselves into hereditary positions? Respect for the US Constitution? Considering that in banning firearms they are going against the Second Amendment already? Or that in holding suspected terrorists without trial they are going against the Fifth and Sixth Amendments? However, if the general populace has enough in the way of firearms to stage a successful rebellion against an oppressive regime, then there is less likely to be an oppressive regime in the first place.

For others, it is simply the principle of the thing - the US Constitution says that "...the right to bear arms shall not be infringed", and view banning assault weapons as infringement.

Others just think that guns are cool, and would prefer owning them leagally to owning them illeagally.

Personally, I'm planning on breaking pattern and voting Libertarian - Bush was on watch when the Patriot Act (and the later supporting bills) was passed, so I'm not about to vote for him. I saw a commercial for Kerry saying he wanted to strengthen it even more, so I'm not going to vote for him, either.

[Atrocities]

Rex I am sorry that you are so misinformed. If I had to explain everything to you I would be here all day. Vote for Kerry, it is the tv fed, liberal lie, best way to go for people who refuse to open their eyes. No if you choose to get informed here is a sight that might help you understand the gun grab issues.

If you think Kerry is going to give all those wonderful thing you mentioned in your post, well I am sorry to be the one to tell you that he won't. In the end he will be just another president tha we cannot wait to vote out of office.

[rextorres]

Post deleted by rextorres

[Atrocities]

Things are not always what they seem.

[rextorres]

Umm I wrote that I am not voting for Bush because his tax cuts are bankrupting the country (implying that his deficits are causing the bankruptcy). This was a general statement not directed at you.

In the very next post you wrote . . .I quote:

"Rex I am sorry that you are so misinformed. If I had to explain everything to you I would be here all day. Vote for Kerry, it is the tv fed, liberal lie, best way to go for people who refuse to open their eyes."

I am assuming you meant that the deficit is a liberal lie . . . but like I said it's not clear what you meant.

So once again I ask in response to your post.

Are you saying that the deficit is a liberal lie or that there is no deficit?

It's requires a very simple answer to a very simple question.

[Gandalf Parker]

rextorres said:
Are you saying that clean air, clean water, public schools, social security, police and fire protection, etc. is too much to ask?

Its all pros and cons. The repubs seem to live for the present. Keeping the most of what they make, gaining the most ground, even if it detracts from others later. Investing in the future means "my problems, my future, my families future, my states future, my countries future".

Demo's seem to be willing to accept less today in order to invest in a further tomorrow. Investing in the future tends to be "our problems, our future, our families future, our states, our countries".

Both sides tend to paint horrible pictures of what will happen if the other side is carried to the extreme. I think they are both right when they do that. So I tend to vote in a way that doesnt let either one go too far for too long.

Under the republicans we would become the Ferrengi.
Under the democrats we would become the Federation.
Under the U.S. marijuana party we would become Rhysa.
Under the american heritage party we would become the Dominion.
For more parties visit http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm