Poll: morale and routing

[Graeme Dice]

Huzurdaddi said:
If you take them out of the battle the rest of his impressive army would have been destroyed by one of your ice devils ( assuming it was well equipped, and assuming no artifacts).

One ice devil would not have taken out that army. The only survivors were the commanders, and the ice devils had a great deal of trouble even hitting the sidhe.

[Huzurdaddi]

The only survivors

Makes sense. We all know that SC's rule the day and *sadly* troops ( including summoned troops ) become chaff.

and the ice devils had a great deal of trouble even hitting the sidhe.

Come now. Perhaps you should define "a great deal" perhaps with a top flight bless effect and 2 stars of xp an ice devil should be hitting right around 50% of the time, depending upon item loadout. Given what you are saying ( that they commanders stayed behind after all of the troops were dead ) I have to assume that the ice devils went beserk so I'm going to guess that they had hellswords if which case they should hit more in the 80% range ( could even be greater, but there are so many variables I'll leave it up to the reader to figure out the exact percentage ).

[Graeme Dice]

[quote]
Huzurdaddi said:
Makes sense. We all know that SC's rule the day and *sadly* troops ( including summoned troops ) become chaff.[/quote

If you're going to ignore my explanations of what happened in a battle that you didn't witness, then we aren't going to get very far here.

Come now. Perhaps you should define "a great deal" perhaps with a top flight bless effect and 2 stars of xp an ice devil should be hitting right around 50% of the time, depending upon item loadout.

Which is less than 1 kill per turn on average, thanks to glamour, which means that they certainly can't kill many enemy troops at all.

[Pickles]

Graeme Dice said:

Which is less than 1 kill per turn on average, thanks to glamour, which means that they certainly can't kill many enemy troops at all.

While I agree with you about troops being useful this does not really support your case as 1/turn is still 40 say each.

I just defeated 2 airqueens with a 30 illithids & 15 mages army by paralysing them & enslaveing them. So troops here were good. But I think SCS are powerful in 2 aspects

1) they provide a massive boost in combat power to a conventional army - if the 2 above queens had had along 40 troops the troops would have soaked a lot of fire allowing the AQS to cause mahem.

2) They are great as very mobile raiders. This is my main complaint against them not raw combat power. They are just so much more easy to turn into flyers & fliers are so strong operationally. It is like the German Panzer Divisions/Corps/Armies in WWII (to get back to the tanks we all love) that as well as being the most powerful units used their mobility to do most of the fighting, at least in the mobile phases.

While I have not played enough yet to see if it is a problem I have given & received blitzkriegs facilitated by massed fliers.

Pickles

[Zapmeister]

I'd like to see the rule for army routing become: Army routs when all non-commander troops are dead or routed and one commander is dead or routed.

This becomes the existing rule when there are no non-commander troops to start with and would also improve mixed battles, IMHO.

The other thing I'd like to see is forces that perform an organized retreat as a result of the retreat order, or fire and flee, going to the same adjacent province. Routing troops should still scatter to the four winds, of course.

[magnate]

Zapmeister said:
I'd like to see the rule for army routing become: Army routs when all non-commander troops are dead or routed and one commander is dead or routed.

This becomes the existing rule when there are no non-commander troops to start with and would also improve mixed battles, IMHO.

The other thing I'd like to see is forces that perform an organized retreat as a result of the retreat order, or fire and flee, going to the same adjacent province. Routing troops should still scatter to the four winds, of course.

Now that's an interesting idea. It avoids the complicated issue of morale checking for commanders, which I don't fully understand but doesn't seem to be compatible with Panther's original suggestion. It avoids the ludicrous routing of Moloch (or whoever) when the free summons (or other chaff) get killed. It even seems to avoid the slaughtering of the mages once you've lost the battle - you'd only lose one at most.

I guess the people who thought the original suggestions would make SCs even more powerful will still think so. I also guess that people who actually want their single commander to rout (without failing a morale check) when his troops have gone will not want this change. It's an interesting one to explore though (and, er, it makes a change from AoW and tanks).

CC
P.S. I like the orderly retreat suggestion as well.

[msew]

la la la

I love when an SC can beat the an army by himself. But you send him in with an army of his own they are defeated due to routing.


so silly