The one change Dom2 really needs.....

[Graeme Dice]

Frosted Flake said:
I know what i think it is. The game has a rich assortment of weapons and shields and basically they are all useless. National troops and even Scs are helpless against a wraith sword/hell sword weilding SC.

You've never seen 40 barbarians take down a banelord with herioc toughness(100 hitpoints), luck pendant, jade armour and a wraith sword? It happens often enough that I avoid barbarian provinces altogether.

[Frosted Flake]

Once in a blue moon a poorly protected SC can lose to a host of indies but its rare. Bane lords are only a level 5 summons and cost only 10 gems and are very very effective.They come with a cool blade that noone would consider letting them swing. If lifedrain was nerfed, and screw thematic I'm talking game fun, people would still summon every SC they could they'd just maybe want some troops along and we'd see them decked with different toys. I love Jotun neifelheim and a properly equipped jarl can take out a stack of heavy cav solo..its kinda sick

frosty

[Zen]

Frosted Flake said:
Once in a blue moon a poorly protected SC can lose to a host of indies but its rare. Bane lords are only a level 5 summons and cost only 10 gems and are very very effective.They come with a cool blade that noone would consider letting them swing. If lifedrain was nerfed, and screw thematic I'm talking game fun, people would still summon every SC they could they'd just maybe want some troops along and we'd see them decked with different toys. I love Jotun neifelheim and a properly equipped jarl can take out a stack of heavy cav solo..its kinda sick

frosty

So what do you do with Vampires? Just a question I'd ask. Change it to Steal Strength? Or just let them tear people up and not have them suck blood (I'm not saying this couldn't be construed as thematic since I doubt every vampire that ever attacks is allowed to suck blood).

Some people do leave the Bane Lord with his normal weapon, I do very frequently, because he is decked out and his weapon does decay. And at the rate Bane Lords can die and their incorporated cost, it doesn't seem economical for me to spend another 10 gems for a Wraith Sword, when I can just get another Bane Lord for another 10 gems (baring Forge bonuses, but they are hardly common to every time I use death).

[Frosted Flake]

the vamyre life drain at least doesnt get an attack,defense bonus and reach like wraith swords. vampyres are also a level 7 summons. I almost never use them offensively (unless empowered) but rather to summon allies. A current game I have about 1000 vampyres and 30+ lords summoning more ever turn. I would have no complaints if that growth was nerfed. Against the living 1 bane lord with a wraith sword can defeat what 3 w/o could not at a gem savings.

[Boron]

Hm perhaps you could make all hoarding items like clams horror marked and aditionally to this diseasing the wearer .
Then you can't be total sure that they pay off at least in the long run and need black servants or similiar to carry them .

Otherwise it is i think too hard to balance them because they become either totally cost ineffective or are still a good choice .

I am sure you have this in mind but i would like to see which costs you think of for hellswords and soul contracts to compare them with the other lifedrain / hoard weapons .

[archaeolept]

I'm much happier w/ the new numbers for the gem generating items. they seem about right; expensive enough to prevent heavy hording strats; not too expensive for them to be absolutely worthless.

[Kel]

While life draining is prevalent enough to limit the weapons and SC's you might use, I am afraid that nerfing it will greatly weaken SCs overall. I realize that lately, there has been an influx of people who want the game to be more focused on national troops but I am certainly not one of them...I have always liked the evolution of the game from national troops to a combination to a majority of SCs.

Is it your intention to nerf SC's, overall, or are you planning to keep the same balance in some other way ? And I am not talking bane lords who, as you pointed out, can be used cost efficiently as thugs with their starting weapon, but the more expensive SCs.

I realize that making them more expensive and/or having higher path requirements doesn't make them impossible to use or useless (how do I know someone will say that?) but making them less accessible or less prevalent does clearly alter an overall balance (that I already like) if there is no plan to improve them in some other way.

- Kel

[Huzurdaddi]

Otherwise it is i think too hard to balance them because they become either totally cost ineffective or are still a good choice .

As I discussed with Zen the cost effectiveness of all hoarding stratgies is almost completely dependent upon the size of the map. On a 100 province map with 5 players you would have to be insane to hoard.

On a 400 province map you are crazy not to hoard.

Sadly the engine does not support items costing different amounts on different maps currently.

[PvK]

Huzurdaddi said:

As I discussed with Zen the cost effectiveness of all hoarding stratgies is almost completely dependent upon the size of the map. On a 100 province map with 5 players you would have to be insane to hoard.

On a 400 province map you are crazy not to hoard.

Sadly the engine does not support items costing different amounts on different maps currently.

My suggestion to base the total world clam income on the number of water provinces would automatically balance this.

PvK

[Graeme Dice]

Frosted Flake said:
Once in a blue moon a poorly protected SC can lose to a host of indies but its rare.

Not that rare. As indicated, barbarians do it all the time if they aren't ethereal.

Bane lords are only a level 5 summons and cost only 10 gems and are very very effective.

They can only be considered to be "very very effective" if you spend another 20 or 30 gems on them. Otherwise they will die very easily to a prepared opponent. Their MR of only 15 is the most obvious weakness.

I'm talking game fun, people would still summon every SC they could they'd just maybe want some troops along and we'd see them decked with different toys.

If you don't send troops along with your SCs, then they will be killed rather easily by an opponent who has magical power.

I love Jotun neifelheim and a properly equipped jarl can take out a stack of heavy cav solo..its kinda sick

What's the problem with this? It's a frost giant wielding numerous very powerful magical items against a bunch of mundane humans on horseback. Wouldn't you always put your money on the giant?