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October 3rd, 2004, 01:35 AM
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Captain
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Italy
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Re: Devil Review
Wind Ride IMO is fine as it is.
It's A5, and requires 10 Air Gems to be cast. It's a good spell, but it's fine. It could kill a commander, and however if you've many commanders you can even wind ride the wrong commander (I've wasted so many gems in trying to Wind Ryde some Ermorian Dusk Elders or such, ending up to catch some new created Mound Kings that popped out as spawn in that province).
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army, or SCs too if unprepared. It costs 5 Death Gems, and it's damn good.
In fact in my MOD Ghost Riders have an increase in gem cost.
__________________
- Cohen
- The Paladin of the Lost Causes
- The Prophet of the National Armyes
- The Enemy of the SC and all the overpowered and unbalanced things.
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October 3rd, 2004, 06:38 AM
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Second Lieutenant
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Re: Devil Review
Cohen,
Ghost Riders is a level 9 spell. As such, it is supposed to be very, very, good.
__________________
When I said Death before Dishonour, I meant alphabetically.
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October 3rd, 2004, 11:36 AM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calgary, Canada
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Re: Devil Review
Quote:
Cohen said:
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army
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I wonder what that Army was supposed to fight if it can't defeat Ghost Riders? GR is level 9, so it should have been expecting to fight some serious opposition. GR are pretty good (if you cast 5 or so sets of them) at kicking out gems and killing off fodder from the Armies, but otherwise, they're just a tool to hunt down some annoying raiders, or to take down some overly well organized PD.
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October 3rd, 2004, 12:06 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Albuquerque New Mexico
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Re: Devil Review
Quote:
alexti said:
Quote:
Cohen said:
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army
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I wonder what that Army was supposed to fight if it can't defeat Ghost Riders? GR is level 9, so it should have been expecting to fight some serious opposition. GR are pretty good (if you cast 5 or so sets of them) at kicking out gems and killing off fodder from the Armies, but otherwise, they're just a tool to hunt down some annoying raiders, or to take down some overly well organized PD.
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Or to take down two pretenders in two turns, when people are stupid enough to have their pretenders out solo with poor equipment long after Ghost Riders has been researched.  One had the nerve to "declare war" by popping his pretender on top of my newly discovered fort.
Best of all - the first was killed even _after_ I wiped out my own PD with one casting of GR. 
__________________
Wormwood and wine, and the bitter taste of ashes.
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October 3rd, 2004, 12:49 PM
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Second Lieutenant
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Join Date: Sep 2003
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Re: Devil Review
Quote:
alexti said:
Quote:
Cohen said:
Ghost Rider could kill an entire Army
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I wonder what that Army was supposed to fight if it can't defeat Ghost Riders? GR is level 9, so it should have been expecting to fight some serious opposition. GR are pretty good (if you cast 5 or so sets of them) at kicking out gems and killing off fodder from the Armies, but otherwise, they're just a tool to hunt down some annoying raiders, or to take down some overly well organized PD.
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I've seen them do some rather amazing things. I once had 4 castings of Ghost Riders wipe out 3 Angelic Hosts, an Ivy King with a largish stack of Vine Ogres, and a newly summoned Lamia Queen (I remember thinking at the time that if I'd been able to script the Lamia Queen I would have survived, although it would still have been costly). This was quite some time ago, and I've learned a lot since then, but compute the relative value for yourself.
There was a large thread on this subject way back when. My only comment at the time was: "4 pages on *this*?", but now I wouldn't mind seeing Ghost Riders be made a bit more expensive.
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October 3rd, 2004, 12:54 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Albuquerque New Mexico
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Re: Devil Review
On the other hand, I've spent about 12 castings of GR on one R'lyan army - mostly Vine Ogres, some Illithids, and about 10 mage/priest commanders. 12 GRs, as many as 4 at one time, plus two armies (including powerful artifacts in one), and I only now have it whittled down to killing strength where I can dispose of the artifacts in order to reforge them. 
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Wormwood and wine, and the bitter taste of ashes.
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October 3rd, 2004, 02:04 PM
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Captain
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Location: Italy
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Re: Devil Review
I've seen GR killing fully equipped SCs.
Simply their Life Draining swords doesn't work against them (not that it is a bad thing). And thus this would imply that the SC act as solo.
But for 5 or perhaps 10 D.Gems, being able to kill an SC, I think it's too much.
Dunno how much it will change if the GR cost is 8 D.Gems now, but in the long run there's a difference.
__________________
- Cohen
- The Paladin of the Lost Causes
- The Prophet of the National Armyes
- The Enemy of the SC and all the overpowered and unbalanced things.
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October 3rd, 2004, 03:09 PM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 762
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Re: Devil Review
Quote:
Cohen said:
I've seen GR killing fully equipped SCs.
Simply their Life Draining swords doesn't work against them (not that it is a bad thing). And thus this would imply that the SC act as solo.
But for 5 or perhaps 10 D.Gems, being able to kill an SC, I think it's too much.
Dunno how much it will change if the GR cost is 8 D.Gems now, but in the long run there's a difference.
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Well, if SCs have decided to travel alone, they were asking for it I guess. Of course, you can get anything killed by pretty much anything. I've seen Moloch and 2 fully equipped Arch Devils killed by a bunch of PD and black hawks. (always take care of a safe escape route ;->)
But in the situation when the players remember about Ghost Riders, GR are not that good, at least not for killing armies. To some extent they're similar to Flames from the Sky, wrathful skies, rain of stones etc which can demolish careless armies. If anything, it's easier to protect from GRs than from the mentioned spells.
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October 3rd, 2004, 03:27 PM
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Lieutenant General
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Join Date: Feb 2004
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Re: Devil Review
generally, the easiest way to tell if something is a bit too cheap is how prevalently it is used. on that yardstick, ghostriders is too good a deal. I love them, and use them all the time, but I think bumping up their cost, even to say 7 death gems, would be a good thing. As it is they are just one of the many things that makes castling such a necessary strategy, as the open lands are so dangerous.
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October 4th, 2004, 04:38 AM
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First Lieutenant
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Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: CA
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Re: Devil Review
Quote:
Cainehill said:
On the other hand, I've spent about 12 castings of GR on one R'lyan army - mostly Vine Ogres, some Illithids, and about 10 mage/priest commanders. 12 GRs, as many as 4 at one time, plus two armies (including powerful artifacts in one), and I only now have it whittled down to killing strength where I can dispose of the artifacts in order to reforge them.
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Heh. Ghost Riders are totally useless against good Illhids army. You are lucky that your opponent was likely not very expereinced with playing R'leh, or your GR attacks would be just waste of death gems. Remember, only GR's commanders are not mindless (and they don't have high enough MR and hitpoints), so Illhids can kill them very quickly, if there are enough if them and if his army would be positioned and scripted appropriately. He should get at least 3 full valleys of mindbalsting your undead commanders before engaging onto melee, 4 if you tried to attack him underwater. And by that time all your GR's cavalery would be disolving due to lack of undead leadership.
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