OT - US Presidential Candiates Arrested! - Page 3

Gandalf Parker · #1 October 23rd, 2004, 06:25 PM

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Imperator Fyron said:

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Renegade 13 said:
Sorry, but I'll disagree with you here. I live in Canada, and I think that as of now, we are more free than the US has been for quite some time. I am more free than you ever will be. At least the police here don't have the right to detain you without just cause indefinitely, like they do in the US.

Minor nit-pick... while the US military can apparently detain foreigners indefinitely, the police could certainly not do this to a US citizen...

Not indefinately. There is a very specific time limit before they must be charged with something and see a judge. One of the very good parts of the original constitution. Of course there were 1700+ arrested during the republican convention and held for 60 hours.

Renegade 13 · #2 October 23rd, 2004, 06:29 PM

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Gandalf Parker said:

Quote:

Imperator Fyron said:

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Renegade 13 said:
Sorry, but I'll disagree with you here. I live in Canada, and I think that as of now, we are more free than the US has been for quite some time. I am more free than you ever will be. At least the police here don't have the right to detain you without just cause indefinitely, like they do in the US.

Minor nit-pick... while the US military can apparently detain foreigners indefinitely, the police could certainly not do this to a US citizen...

Not indefinately. There is a very specific time limit before they must be charged with something and see a judge. One of the very good parts of the original constitution. Of course there were 1700+ arrested during the republican convention and held for 60 hours.

I thought the limit for holding without just cause was 48 hours, not 60. Also, doesn't the Patriot Act give the police or military the right to detain without just cause if they believe they "may" be a threat to the security of the US? Or am I wrong again?

AMF · #3 October 23rd, 2004, 06:35 PM

Actually, under the Patriot Act, I beleive you can be detained indefinitely w/o access to legal counsel if they say that terrorism is involved (oh, and all of the evidence, depositions, and the very fact that you've been taken away can be kept secret IIRC...)

Scared? You should be. (EDIT: and you know THEY'RE watching these Boards and recording everything...if I dissappear suddenly, you know why...)

I'll try and drum up some references to confirm or deny this, but I'm pretty sure it is currently the case.

Renegade 13 · #4 October 23rd, 2004, 06:27 PM

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Imperator Fyron said:

Quote:

Renegade 13 said:
Sorry, but I'll disagree with you here. I live in Canada, and I think that as of now, we are more free than the US has been for quite some time. I am more free than you ever will be. At least the police here don't have the right to detain you without just cause indefinitely, like they do in the US.

Minor nit-pick... while the US military can apparently detain foreigners indefinitely, the police could certainly not do this to a US citizen...

Thanks for clearing that up Fyron, I must have gotten my information screwed up in my head. Not the first time that's happened...

One more thing though...have any of you heard of the Canadian citizen who was travelling to the US, and yet was detained by the US immigration, or homeland security, or some such organization, and then deported to Syria!! He was kept incarcerated by US forces without just cause, simply because he used to live in Syria. He was a Canadian citizen, and yet some braindead organization deported him to Syria! Come on. That's just ridiculous.

I will admit, the Canadian government cooperated with the US somewhat in this, and for that I have no respect for them. Now, Canada was also responsible for that. I admit it. I'm not so rabidly patriotic that I can not see the truth.

Point is, the US does many things that are against basic human rights. Other countries do too. Canada probably does so as well. There are many problems with the world today, and we can't solve them all. That doesn't mean we have to be rabidly patriotic and stick our head in the sand though.

By the way, the name of the Canadian that was deported to Syria was Maher Arrar (not sure of the spelling) just in case anyone wanted to look that up.

AMF · #5 October 23rd, 2004, 06:26 PM

Starhawk said:

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Starhawk said:
YES America has it's flaws but we are also the Strongest, and I have to say most FREE nation on earth

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Is it?

In terms of Economic freedom, it ranks sixth, behind Hong Kong, Signapore, New Zealand, Switzerland, and the UK (see: http://www.ncpa.org/pi/internat/pd012299g.html)

But I don't think that's what he means. (After all, Signapore is a pretty facistic place in some ways, although, clearly, like Mussolini, the government keeps the train running on time)

So, what about other freedoms?

In terms of press/journalistic freedom (based on things like "attacks on journalists (such as murders, imprisonment, physical assaults and threats) and on the media (censorship, confiscation, searches and pressure).[and]... the degree of impunity enjoyed by those responsible for such violations...), the US is ranked as: 17th (Finland is first, France 11, Canada 5) (see: http://www.rsf.fr/article.php3?id_article=4118)

SO, how about political freedoms? It's hard to get a "top ten" for this, since most categorize rather than rank dsicreteley. Given that, Freedom House ranks the US in it's highest categrory (for both Political Rights and Civil Liberties) but details some disturbing trends as well
(http://www.freedomhouse.org/research...atings/usa.htm)

The US shares this highest ranking with a number of other countries, including Uruguay, Slovenia, Norway, France, Canada, and a whole lot of others.

So, is the US the "most free" in the world? Well, it shares the highest Category, so you could make a case either way, really.