Mictlan Pretenders ideas request

[Zen]

If you are asking for the pain of playing Mictlan, my first bit of advice would be to play with reasonable VP's or a time limit. The biggest killer of Mictlan is it's own micromanagement, or more appropriately the need to use resources to circumvent some of that micromanagment. Creating Control Groups, making sure you have labs, etc, waste precious resources in order to stomach the icky micro.

Other than that. I have been very, very successful with my Mictlan games as long as I adhere to the rule of Sacreds.

Unless you plan on having some sort of silver-tongued diplomacy with pure and pristine, totally-honest and forthright neighbors, you are going to have to fight in the early game, if not for territory, for Dominion. The easiest way to spread your dominion is to kill other temples, gods and prophets .

Regardless of Scale Choices and Pretender Designs my first 3 armys in the first 10 turns look like this:

First Army: Starting Troops, +2-4 Feathered Warriors, As many Javelin Warriors as you can reasonably afford.

Second Army: Slaves from Initial Tribal King, 10-15 Eagle Warriors

Third Army: 10-15 Fiends of Darkness.

Using these armies either seperately (3 different armies) or combining a pair to take on different types of indies is the key to making the Mictlan Early game work. After the early game, you only need to worry about getting up 4-5 Blood Province Production centers. I almost always capitalize on the Magic 2 + Mictlan Priest spam, rush to Ice Devils and take a Pretender that can summon Ice Devils, worrying about equipping them later. I also tend to put at the very least 3 Air on my Pretender in such circumstances in order to forge what I need, when I need it. If I don't choose to put Air on my pretender I choose Astral, my second line of research is not Construction but Conjuration and I get a Harbinger.

All the time I have for now, but If I have time later I will offer a few more tendancies.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Zen said:
I almost always capitalize on the Magic 2 + Mictlan Priest spam, rush to Ice Devils and take a Pretender that can summon Ice Devils, worrying about equipping them later.

Or a pretender who can forge a Robe of the Sea (contruction 2). May look expensive at 20 gems, but if Blue Dragons are your style, it's still cheaper than giving blood magic to your pretender.

[archaeolept]

the problem there is that mictlan can only count on 1 water/turn, unless he's willing to alchemize his also limited astral income. might as well rush construction 6

Actually, one of the things I most like about Mictlan is how many variants on strategy they have. I don't personally rush for the ID/AD and instead count on mere mass of blood (after going quickly to const 4 for SDRs) to guarantee me a good selection of the blood summons. (especially under zen's mod, which ups the price and lvl of the ID, and improves the heliophagii).

As to taking blood on my pretender, I'd have to say I don't tend to do that. blood is by far the cheapest to empower, and spending so many design points on Blood 6 seems a waste, even though the bless effect is quite nice for the micts. blood 4 I could see, though for a Moloch I'd really rather have A4 to make up for Mictlan's prime elemental deficiency and to give a very strong boost to the Moloch's indy-fighting abilities.

And I don't usually go for early game fiends, as it takes so many of my capital only mages to summon sufficient numbers. However, fiends are great, and it really is a viable alternative; certainly, if I were not to take a blessing strat, I would summon them.

As to not taking death, ehh, this has been argued before. Even death-3 has never really bothered me (other than by making my large armies starve)

[Nagot Gick Fel]

archaeolept said:
the problem there being is that mictlan can only count on 1 water/turn, unless he's willing to alchemize his also limited astral income. might as well rush construction 6

Not my opinion, and I'd bet it isn't Zen's opinion either, for exactly the same reason - or then he wouldn't be so adamant about giving his pretender the required skills to summon IDs. Even if he didn't say it, I believe he'd beeline for Construction 4 before rushing for Ice Devils - because SDRs are just that important, as they double your Priests' output. When I play a Blue Dragon, my research plan is Alt 2 (Quickness), Ench 2 (BoW) - ie, giving the Dragon what he needs to fight efficiently -, then Constr 4 for SDRs - this also gives the Robe, the Brazen Vessel (ie, what a Rain Priest needs to summon IDs), as well a bit of gear to enhance the Dragon's survavibility. Then straight to Blood 5, and by the time I get there, there are just enough gems in the lab to forge a Robe, or close. So why would I ever push for Construction 6?

[archaeolept]

if you didn't put water 3 on your pretender

and if you did, empowering him in blood or starting him w/ blood 1 might be more efficient.

Again, a lot of these decisions affect others. One reason to rush for ID's is to provide a needed military boost to Mictlan fairly early, in order to compensate for a perhaps otherwise slow start. However, w/ a bless strat, especially a bless strat backed by an SC, early expansion isn't so much an issue, and grabbing all the IDs not so important (if there is even another nation looking like they're going for them). So w/ a bless/SC strat, I would normally just go to const 6 before heading for the blood summons. by the time i hit the IDs/ADs, any and all still available become mine.

Oh, and beating up on Abysia is a good idea too

[Nagot Gick Fel]

archaeolept said:
if you didn't put water 3 on your pretender

Hmmm, maybe I was lost in the thread, but I thought we were assuming a Water 3+ pretender here, since the point you replied to initially was just about that - choosing a pretender that could forge a Robe of the Sea.

and if you did, empowering him in blood or starting him w/ blood 1 might be more efficient.

The example I had in mind was a Blue Dragon, and buying him Blood 1 would be damn expensive in design points. And you'd need at least Blood 2 (thus 96 design points) since the whole point of this subthread was about rushing to IDs before researching Construction 6. If you want Construction 6 done before Blood 5, then the point is moot (because of Water Bracelets) and I fail to see what we're discussing here.

Of course, buying Blood + Water on a rainbow or half-rainbow pretender certainly would make sense - but the neat thing with the Dragon is you get a reasonably cheap level 9 blessing and fast access to IDs without having to spend a ton of design points.

So w/ a bless/SC strat, I would normally just go to const 6 before heading for the blood summons. by the time i hit the IDs/ADs, any and all still available become mine.

Hmmm, depriving the other nations from IDs is also important. Besides, when all you need is a water+1 and a blood+1 item, and you get them at Constr 2 and 4, what the hell is so important to you at Construction 6 so you can delay ID summoning - is it just to save 15 water gems, forging a bracelet instead of a robe?

[archaeolept]

again, one may not have water 3 on one's pretender. the thread is about mictlan pretenders, not solely those w/ water 3 ;p - the point replied to was "why one would ever go to construction 6". certainly when I spoke about going to construction 6 I was not considering myself to have taken Water-3 . Taking water 3 and forging a robe is plausible, in certain circumstances, of course (like a water dragon).

W/ a blue dragon, you could also consider empowering in blood and forging two +1 blood items at const. 4, or one +1 blood and two empowerings (110 blood and 100 blood respectively). That's a pretty heavy blood hit, but doesn't cost any design points, though the robe of the sea seems more attractive (20 water and 20 blood cost).

whether one needs/wants to rush for the ID depends upon who one is playing against, and what nations. As well, it depends on whether one is playing w/ the conceptual balance mod, where there is less reason to rush for them.

side note: I don't think "gosses" is much in vogue as an offensive slang term. you might get a smile though