Mictlan Pretenders ideas request

[Nagot Gick Fel]

PDF said:
About Heat2 : Nagot, I just follow your advice of taking one more scale point that preferred by the nation, so overall the provinces will more tend to desired Heat-1 [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img] Did you forget it ?

Maybe I wasn't precise enough then? This was meant for nations that prefer Heat/Cold +2 (ie, Jotunheim and Machaka). When your national preference is only +1 and you pick +2, climate changes don't average as nicely towards your optimum as it does for Jotunheim and Machaka when you pick +3 (even for these, this would not be true if Heat/Cold could vary from -4 to +4).

[Boron]

On which settings do you play your new mictlan game ?

A few additional things to my basic GK cause i see that my wording wasn't very clear .

I meant that before trying to cast forge of ancients you should get 10-15 hammers asap by building them yourself and by trading .
Then on around turn 40-50 depending on your earthincome you can decide whether you try to bring up forge or not .
With Mictlan this is especially nice cause every B2something mage can then instantly forge bloodstones .
By turn 40-50 your bloodincome / turn should be at least about 150-200 slaves / turn . Iirc 1 bloodstone with forge upcosts 2 earthgems + 10 slaves . So basically the turn you bring up the forge you should be able to forge about 30-40 bloodstones . Then you just hoard them like crazy and for your enemies dispelling forge is not cost effective anymore .
At turn 60-80 ( depending on your gemfinding luck etc. ) you are unstoppable and win the game .

On any map with 200+ provinces and "normal" settings with 50% site frequency + normal research this works quite well . In my Last mictlan game i had by about turn 75 something like 400 bloodstones , 300 clams and 200 fetishes . I had there a "suboptimal" vq and not a gk .


Forge of Ancients + a Blood nation is imo almost unbalanced though . And construction + blood are basicly the 2 most important schools for Blood nations anyway .

[Boron]

PDF said:
On my side I was thinking of a stupid Blood Fountain like B6 A4 S4 (Bloodhunt, Storm Demons & WS, Hellbind,high Blood and Astral rituals...),
Scales O3/S3/H2/G2/L2/M3,
Dom6,
WatchTower
but it's surely very poor in early game, and early game is difficult for Mictlan

If you play base dominion i think Order + luck together is a waste of points .

Your FoB has no earth . At least if you intend to forge a lot like soul contracts , lots of hoarding items , lots of SC equipment this is a source of trouble imo . Sure you can try to trade dwarfen hammers but you will probably have to pay a lot for them and you don't get enough of them as well probably .
Finally expansion with the FoB is for mictlan imho so difficult that it handicaps you so much that you probably have no chance of winning the game .

[Graeme Dice]

Boron said:
I meant that before trying to cast forge of ancients you should get 10-15 hammers asap by building them yourself and by trading.

Where are you going to get the hundreds of earth gems for this? Nobody is going to trade you that many hammers without you paying an awful lot for them.

Then on around turn 40-50 depending on your earthincome you can decide whether you try to bring up forge or not.

You won't be able to if you've built 10 or 15 hammers, since you aren't guaranteed, nor are you likely, to have an earth income of more than 10 per turn by about turn 25-30.

At turn 60-80 ( depending on your gemfinding luck etc. ) you are unstoppable and win the game .

Hardly. Since your entire strategy relies on your enemies gaping at you like goldfish and ignoring you completely, it's entirely likely that any of the other nations will have far surpassed you in territory, gem-producing items, and general power. Atlantis especially will probably have an astral income of at least 150 per turn and a water income ot at least 20-30 per turn or more by that point.

In my Last mictlan game i had by about turn 75 something like 400 bloodstones , 300 clams and 200 fetishes.

So you were playing against opponents that never bothered to attack you on an enormous map then? Your entire strategy relies on opponents who have basically stopped playing entirely, so it's not really that impressive.

[alexti]

Graeme Dice said:

So you were playing against opponents that never bothered to attack you on an enormous map then? Your entire strategy relies on opponents who have basically stopped playing entirely, so it's not really that impressive.

... or on opponents who play the same strategy

[Boron]

Graeme Dice said:

Where are you going to get the hundreds of earth gems for this? Nobody is going to trade you that many hammers without you paying an awful lot for them.

You won't be able to if you've built 10 or 15 hammers, since you aren't guaranteed, nor are you likely, to have an earth income of more than 10 per turn by about turn 25-30.

I wasn't really precise again .
Of course it depends on luck . On turn 30 you have about 10-14 fully searched provinces . Depending on the sites you found this can give you anything between 0-20 earthgems i would say .
I build then normally about 5 hammers , then i try to evaluate if i should build more or first bring forge up .
If possible i try to trade a few hammers asap too for e.g. bloodthorn or gems i don't need so much like airgems or firegems .


[quote]
Graeme Dice said:

Boron said:

Hardly. Since your entire strategy relies on your enemies gaping at you like goldfish and ignoring you completely, it's entirely likely that any of the other nations will have far surpassed you in territory, gem-producing items, and general power. Atlantis especially will probably have an astral income of at least 150 per turn and a water income ot at least 20-30 per turn or more by that point.

So you were playing against opponents that never bothered to attack you on an enormous map then? Your entire strategy relies on opponents who have basically stopped playing entirely, so it's not really that impressive.

In that game i was lucky through good diplomacy . I early attacked Ulm and persuaded ermor to join the attack . We had then good relations through the whole game .
Then midgame i had the luck that i could steal lots of provinces from arco which was attacked by ermor .

The other big power in the game , Abysia , wanted to ally with me and i agreed . So i was the 3rd biggest nation then and could hoard easily because both Abysia + Ermor were fighting other nations .
The map was btw Inland .

I had all 6 Icedevils in that game too . Ok you can't count on that but normally you get at least 3-4 of the 11 ice/arch devils .


Thats imo the big advantage of Abysia and Mictlan that they have blood so they don't need to spend lots of gems on summons + weapons .
Both nations can design a good rainbow GK and get this way a pretty nice gem income as well which they can spend on hoarding mainly .