OT:Why Aliens dont come here

[dmm]

Arkcon said:
...if there was another rock oxygen planet here, how close would we be to establishing a colony? We don't have near the technology now, but if we had the incentive, would we be closer, or be there already?

Interesting question. Some thoughts:
1) You assume that it is possible to have two stable Earthlike planets around one star. May not be true.
2) Is there life on that other planet? The dominant opinion nowadays seems to be that liveable planets will automatically have life. This is by inference from Earth, where life exists in every ecological niche that is conceivably liveable (as well as in many niches that we thought were not liveable). However, the data from Earth may be unrepresentative.
3) Is it possible for a planet to be livable (for humans) without an already-existing biosphere? I would guess "no."
4) If there is a biosphere on that planet, would it be right for us to go there at all, much less colonize it? Would orgs like the Sierra Club put up a huge fight to prevent it? My guess is that, regardless of morality or scientific ideals, there is no way in the world that you could keep nations from setting up research colonies at least and that these would gradually become intrusive. Example is Antarctica.
5) If there is a biosphere on that planet, would it be compatible with us? It could be amazingly similar, yet the amino acids and sugars might all have the wrong chirality. (Hmmm...none of it would be digestible. Earth Lite?)
6) What about the problem of non-indigenous organisms being accidentally transferred? And you thought zebra mussels and kudzu were bad!
7) I think we have the technology now, and I think we'd colonize it. Absolutely.
8) Someone should invent a computer game where our solar system captures a liveable planet (or two). Like "Alpha Centauri," but the home planet is still very much part of the game. (Anyone know if AC can be modded to do that?) Actually, "Conquest of the New World" was somewhat like that, except that of course it was historical not sci-fi.

[geoschmo]

If there was a planet that could support human life in our system we could colonize it. If nothing there was edible, at least we'd be able to transplant our own flora there. If it would support human life I can't think of any reason it wouldn't support other earth species. So you might be talking about a period of terraforming, but it would probably only be a few years before a small colony there could be self-sufficent. Perhaps only a single growing season.

[Starhawk]

Heh are you freakin kidding if we had a rock oxygen world in this system aside from Earth Morality would go right out the window when people realize the raw materials you can get from a whole new untouched world.

Mining Companies would probobly send up teams immedietly

Some "religious nuts" might see it as a new Eden or something and go there to get away from the rest of humanity.

Scientists would surely go (probobly first)

The military would DEFINATELY GO as a whole new world may not be given up without a fight by some countries (I can think of a few that would probobly start a war over it but I won't list them)

And not to mention countries like China and India who's populations double every fifty years (You'd think they never heard of birth control) would probobly be the first to send up people in their thousands (or even millions) as they are desperate for any real estate they can get their hands on.

[Timstone]

Starhawk:
China actualy has a birthcontrol law act.
You are not allowed to have more than two children. If you are a single mother/father you are not allowed to have more than one child.

Warmonger countries; yeah you're probabely right about the war thingie. Some countries never learn to peacefully coexist.
To wander a little bit, I don't think global peace will never come. We might have a slight change at worldpeace when all religions would be banished. But that isn't a viable option.

[Alneyan]

China had a fertility rate of about 1.8 child per woman in 2000; not enough to double population every fifty years, especially as this number is decreasing. The United States actually have a slightly higher fertility rate (2 children per woman or so), in the upper average of developed countries.

India has been trying to reduce its population growth as well (a bit less than 3 children per woman Last time I heard), but setting up birth control is easier said than done (mainly in rural communities). If you want countries where population is increasing by twofold every thirty or forty years, you should see the figures for poor African countries instead, and definitively not China.

Edit: At Last, I found the compared growth rates for China and the United States. The US is expected to have a growth rate of about 0.9% this year, while China is expected to be around 0.5%/0.6% (it was at about 0.9% in 2001, and slightly above 1% the Last decade).

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Timstone said:
Starhawk:
China actualy has a birthcontrol law act.
You are not allowed to have more than two children. If you are a single mother/father you are not allowed to have more than one child.

Warmonger countries; yeah you're probabely right about the war thingie. Some countries never learn to peacefully coexist.
To wander a little bit, I don't think global peace will never come. We might have a slight change at worldpeace when all religions would be banished. But that isn't a viable option.

Apparently, I have to repeat myself. 1: Stalin and Hitler were atheists. I'm judging by their actions. 2: The enslavement of black people was supported by the scientific establishment of the time, which deemed them evolutionary throwbacks. 3: People tend to support whatever theory allows them to feel good about their already existing prejudices. 4: Religeon was the motivating factor behind the establishment of the first country to try for the goal of equality for all it's people, however blinded they were by their prejudices. 'One nation under God'.

I get really annoyed when people propose simplistic solutions to complex problems.

[brianeyci]

narf poit chez BOOM said:
Apparently, I have to repeat myself. 1: Stalin and Hitler were atheists.

No. Fundamentalist propaganda. Not sure about Stalin, but here's Hitler, http://www.creationtheory.org/Morality/Hitler.shtml

Its a good site too, should be required reading lol.

Brian

[Starhawk]

I'm sorry religion is not actually the main cause of war so that's not even worth mentioning, as mentioned MANY times most of the "real" Modern wars (I mean ones involving whole countries and not just individual tribes fighting one another which Last i heard falls under the catagory of "Conflicts other then war)have been caused over the desire for Raw materials, land and other resources.
Banishing all religion would NOT bring peace at all, especially since nation's that have "Banned" religion have simply taken up humanistic "divinity" as their new dogma, or used the ban on religion as an excuse for promoting their own dogma.
Basically religion as the cause of all war is just an excuse atheists use to make those with religious belief look bad. (aside from the 7day war I mean point out a war now a days caused by religious beliefs? (seriously if there is a war I don't know about point it out I'm willing to listen)

A unified world government would probobly require the unification of the super powers first (AKA China and the US would have to ally) and then most likely a big nasty war to get rid of those irritating nationalist Groups that would no doubt pop up when you tried to take over their country either by economic or military preasure. Ah hell I'm going to start a thread on this read that to see the rest of this hehe.

Oh and I probobly misunderstood the whole Chinese population growth thing I know that at one point in history their population doubled every fifty years.

[Fyron]

Starhawk said:
Oh and I probobly misunderstood the whole Chinese population growth thing I know that at one point in history their population doubled every fifty years.

Same with everywhere else in the world, especially as various agricultural and industrial revolutions occured...

[Starhawk]

Yeah but China has a HUGE population so them doubling is scary.