Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

[Beorne]

Much thanks to Zen for the effort!

Only a little question: is there somewhere a readme with the changes?

[Edi]

Not yet. There is no readme for the previous spellmod, and the pretender readme while done is not yet published. I've had other stuff to do so they got on backburner, and I haven't had any word from Zen. I'll see about trying to get them done (for all Versions). Must wait till next week, though, so you won't see anything for a few days.

Edi

[Zen]

Alright. I have a little time so I will put forth the ugly readme for everyone. I apologize I have been busy.

ScalesMod 1.1

First. The scalemod. The Stock are the unmodified values and Mod are the modified values replacing the stock. Rareevents is the likelyhood of the higher caliber of Luck events (Random Events are divided into two types, common and rare) per event.

Code:

---

Scale               Stock           Mod



Order/Turmoil       Gold 7%         Gold 6%

Productivity/Sloth  Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Resources 10%   Resources 15%

Heat/Cold           Gold 5%         Gold 7%

Growth/Death        Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Population .02% Population .03%

Luck/Misfortune     Event 10%       Event 13%

                    RareEvent 15%   RareEvent 20%

---

[Zen]

These are the following changes to the Pretenders v2.0

There are some things which are limited by the Modding Tools availiable for Illwinter. One of which is a redistricting of Pretenders, along with other statistical, auto-summoning, battle-summoning, certain unit modifications, global modifications and others. The Conceptual Balance series is my concept of Balance of the Game to allow *everything* to be a viable and game mechanical worthy choice not specifically for theme. While there is no "best" there are certain Pretenders with certain nations better suited to various strategies. With this in mind, here are the changes.

** denote changes from the Last Version

Weapons (weapon nbr / weapon name / changes)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(61) Fire Breath +1 AOE
(62) Bile +2 AOE
(254) Plague Breath +1 Ammo +1 AOE
(4) Lance +1 Length
(357) Light Lance +1 Length

New Weapons:
(999) Wing Buffet dmg -5, att 0, def 1, length 5, aoe 1 (flail, bonus)
(998) Roar dmg -5, att 0, def 0, length 5, aoe 1 (flail, bonus)

Pretenders (monster nbr / monster name / changes)

Monster:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(973) Ancient Kraken +50 PR, +50 CR
(779) Divine Serpent Pathcost: 30
(265) Dragon (blue) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(266) Dragon (green) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(216) Dragon (red) +5 Prot, +2 Prec, +Wing Buffet
(226) Great Sage (r. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, **+Mountain Survival, +Wasteland Survival
(267) Frost Father (b. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Sailing, **+Mountain Survival
(268) Master Druid (g. Dragon) +8 HP, -2 Enc, **+Swamp Survival
(644) Dracolich **Basecost: 150, +8 Prot, +4 Prec, +Immortal, +Wing Buffet
(645) Bog Mummy **+25 FR, +Immortal
(Dracolich 2nd shape)
(462) Manticore +8 Prot, +2 Att, +2 Def, +Wing Buffet
(294) Nerid Basecost: 75, +Mounted
(608) Phoenix +Fire
(334) Golden Naga Basecost: 90, -2 Enc, +Mounted, +Body Slot, Dominion: 2
(157) Naga Basecost: 90, -2 Enc, +Mounted, +Body Slot, Dominion: 2, Stealth 0
(655) Scorpion King +Mounted, +Body Slot
(661) Shedu +2 Def, -2 Enc, +Wing Buffet, +Earth
(978) Great Black Bull Pathcost: 60, -2 Enc
(979) Great White Bull Pathcost: 60, -2 Enc
(269) Wyrm Basecost: 50, +4 Def

(138) Medusa +4 HP
(383) Prince of Death +100 CR, +100 PR
(215) Virtue +Astral, -Air


Giant:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(501) All-Father Pathcost: 50
(955) Asynja Basecost: 100, -2 Air, +Astral, +Nature, +Glamour, +Stealth 25
(156) Cyclops **+20% Forge Bonus
(109) Dagon +6 Def
(385) Daughter of the Land Basecost: 75, +Earth
(606) Great Mother -1 Enc
(603) Father of Serpents +3 Def, +2 Prec, Poison Cloud: 6
(858) Jade Emperor -1 Enc, +2 Prec
(964) Lord of Fertility +Awe +2, +Nature
(957) Lord of the Desert Sun +3 Def, +2 Prec, +Roar
(388) Lord of the Gates **Basecost: 75, +Fear, +Astral
(604) Lord of the Night Basecost: 125
(812) Lord of the Wild Basecost: 125
(387) Mother of Lions +3 Def, +Stealth 0, +Roar, +Nature
(961) Son of the Sea **Basecost: 100, -Water, +Earth, +Mapmove
(386) Son of the Sun (red) +2 Fire Gems
(384) Son of the Sun (white) Basecost: 75, +Fire
(602) Titan (Male) Basecost: 110, +1 Att, +1 Def, +1 Prec, +Mountain Survival, +Mapmove
(600) Titan (Female) +Nature
(652) Void Lord -Head Slot, Dominion: 3


Immobile:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(958) Colossal Head +Nature, +Blood
(1025) Divine Glyph Basecost: 75, +Immortal
(656) Fountain of Blood Pathcost: 30, +10 HP, +3 Blood Slaves
(158) Oracle Pathcost: 30, +10 HP, +2 Astral Gems
(657) Monolith +2 Nature Gems
(472) Sacred Statue Basecost: 30, Pathcost: 20, -Astral,


Human (rainbow):
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(401) ***** Queen +5 Prec, +Stealth 0
(402) Crone (BQ 2nd shape) -3 Enc, +3 Prec
(246) Freak Lord +11 HP, -2 Enc, +Nature
(245) Arch Druid +11 HP, -2 Enc
(248) Arch Mage (Water) +11 HP, -2 Enc
(244) Arch Mage Basecost: 25, +11 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 2
(509) Arch Seraph Basecost: 50, +8 HP
(249) Crone = Hag Basecost: 25, +6 HP, -2 Enc, +3 Prec, +Iron Crutch
(250) Frost Father
= Rime Mariner Basecost: 45, +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Sailing
(270) Master Druid Basecost: 45, +8 HP, -2 Enc, +Swamp Survival
(251) Great Sage Basecost: 25, +8 HP, -2 Enc
(485) Great Enchantress Basecost: 45, +7 HP, -2 Enc, +Ethereal
(873) Great Seer of the Deeps Basecost: 45, +9 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 2, +Water
(486) Great Warlock -2 Enc, Dominion: 2, +Quarterstaff, +Fire
(550) Master Alchemist +9 HP, -2 Enc, +2 Prec, +Earth
(857) Smoking Mirror +5 HP, -2 Enc
(858) Smoking Mirror (Jaguar) +16 HP, -1 Enc, +7 Prec, +13 MR
(500) Skratti = Elder Skratti -1 Enc, +1 Att, +3 Def, +Blood
(653) Serpent King **+8 HP, -2 Enc, Dominion: 3
(654) Serpent King (Serpent) +16 HP, -2 Enc, +3 Def, +2 Prec
(874) Divine Emperor -2 Enc, Dominion: 3


(872) Ghost King Basecost: 110, Pathcost: 30
(180) Master Lich = Arch Lich **+1 Death Gems, +Disease Cloud 6
(179) Lich +50 FR
(395) Lich Queen +50 FR
(320) Saurolich +50 FR
(643) Bog Mummy +25 FR



Unedited Pretenders:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
(607) Baphomet
(1026) Carrion Dragon
(601) Lady of Fortune
(120) Moloch
(956) Mother of Tuathas
(499) Nataraja
(605) Son of Niefel
(159) Sphinx
(862) Vampire Queen
(546) Void Lurker

[Edi]

Comprehensive readme files for Spell mods 1.6 and 1.7 and Pretender mods 1.9 and 2.0 will be made available tomorrow. Right now it's too bloody late (0:45 am) and my gf will kill me if I don't shut the computer down very soon, is why the delay.

The readme's will have a major change of format in that everything will be displayed with the current modded values followed by original values in parentheses, instead of the previously used +/- x without reference to original value. I got too bloody tired referencing my own weapons and unit databases every time there was some minor change, and it will make the readmes more user friendly.

Edi

[Cainehill]

From the game this Sunday, it seems that the current elemental summoning spells may need tweaking - several of us thought that putting a gem requirement back might be good, because it's currently possible to really spam elementals. True, not with most national mages (albeit Atlantis, Abysia, Caelum, etc could manage it on a limitted scale) but a pretender going for a 9 or 10 bless winds up being able to churn out elementals every cast with almost no fatigue loss to limit it. Likewise, the elemental royalty and arch devils could spam elementals almost unlimittedly with a couple of boosters.

And, since the AI prefers to summon things more than almost anything else, it tends to continue to pump elementals after the script has run out.

Just seems a little unbalanced, watching a Moloch spew forth 15 or more full size fire elementals with his fatigue staying about 20 or 30. Said Moloch had a small army with him, but with just a dozen Mictlanish slaves would probably have slowed down 130 carrion creatures (or most other armies) long enough for the torrent of elementals to wipe out the opposing army.

[odd_enuf]

actually caelum can't spam elementals, air ones still need gems, but you don't even need a level 9 bless to spam elementals, an earth 6 or 7 cyclops can cast summon earth power and keep the elementals coming the entire battle. I would recomend upping the fatige cost to 100-200, a very high level bless could still spam for a while, but would eventually run out.

odd_enuf

[jeffr]

Zen said:
ScalesMod 1.1

Code:

---

Scale               Stock           Mod



Order/Turmoil       Gold 7%         Gold 6%

Productivity/Sloth  Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Resources 10%   Resources 15%

Heat/Cold           Gold 5%         Gold 7%

Growth/Death        Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Population .02% Population .03%

Luck/Misfortune     Event 10%       Event 13%

                    RareEvent 15%   RareEvent 20%

---

Doesn't Order/Turmoil currently have some effect on the Event frequency?

[Turin]

Growth seems to be far better compared to order.

I ran a test game, where I gave one god order 1 and the other growth 1, order started with 166 income growth with 163. I just ended the turns after checking incomes.
After the second turn growth income jumped to 165 and after the 6th turn he was already at 167.

I suggest removing the extra 2% gold bonus growth gets, it is already a very worthwile scale withe the increased population growth effect.

[Ivan Pedroso]

Turin said:
Growth seems to be far better compared to order.

I ran a test game, where I gave one god order 1 and the other growth 1, order started with 166 income growth with 163. I just ended the turns after checking incomes.
After the second turn growth income jumped to 165 and after the 6th turn he was already at 167.

I suggest removing the extra 2% gold bonus growth gets, it is already a very worthwile scale withe the increased population growth effect.

Nevermind the following - it's wrong

Couldn't help doing a bit of algebra:

Income from province with Order+1 (on the N'th turn):
population / 200 * 1,06

Accumulated income with Order+1:
population / 200 * 1,06 * N

Income from province with Growth+1 (on the N'th turn):
population / 200 * 1,04 * 1,0003^N

Accumulated income with Growth+1:
population / 200 * 1,04 * Sum(i=1 to N of)[1,0003^ i]

The Last term in the above is a geometric series which adds up to:
Sum(i=1 to N of)[1,0003^ i] = (1 - 1,0003^(N+1))/(1 - 1,0003) - 1
Sum(bla bla)[bla bla bla] = (1,0003^(N+1) - 1) / 0,0003

Equating the two different accumulated incomes (Order+1 = Growth+1) gives:
1,06 * N = 1,04 * (1,0003^(N+1) - 1) / 0,0003

Here are the values of the left- and right-hand sides of this equation for some values of N:

Code:

---

N     Left(Order+1)  Right(Growth+1)  

1      1,06000	       1,040312

50    53,00000        52,399756

100  106,00000       105,591314

125  132,50000	     132,487750

126  133,56000       133,567808

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All this (crap ) just to say that in terms of income Growth+1 overtakes Order+1 after 125 turns. If you choose +3, Growth will ovetake Order at turn 115.