Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

[Turin]

Ivan Pedroso said:

lots of math sutff here

All this (crap ) just to say that in terms of income Growth+1 overtakes Order+1 after 125 turns. If you choose +3, Growth will ovetake Order at turn 115.

playtesting suggests that you have 1 zero too many, growth rate is 1,003 not 1,0003.
Secondly you have to factor in the administration bonus from castles, which incresaes with growth. If you do the test game you will see that growth´s income in a province with a watchtower will overtake order after turn 6 or 7. And after turn 10-11 the total accumulated income will be better than order´s.
Now growth has several other nice side effects(like better resource income, convenient bloodhunting/patrolling)
and that makes growth a nobrainer compared to order with that mod.

[atul]

Turin said:
playtesting suggests that you have 1 zero too many, growth rate is 1,003 not 1,0003.

Indeed, it would appear a province with 30 000 pop and growth3 dominion has an increase of 270 pop per turn - so growth would raise pop by 0.3% per scale. From the comments above, I assume it was meant to be only 0.03% increase per scale?

[Alneyan]

The basic growth value was 0.2%, and so I believe the .02% and .03% were typos. It has been increased to make Growth more worthwhile and, above all, to make Death a less appealing choice.

[Ivan Pedroso]

atul said:

Indeed, it would appear a province with 30 000 pop and growth3 dominion has an increase of 270 pop per turn - so growth would raise pop by 0.3% per scale. From the comments above, I assume it was meant to be only 0.03% increase per scale?

Yeah I used 1,0003 because Zen stated above that the growth rate was .03% - If he meant .3% then it should be 1,003. And also I wasn't aware of the admin/growth issue, I just thought that other castle stuff would be identical in the two situations. As is(almost) always the case, actual experiments beat dry calculations

@Turin: Could you tell me the connection between admin and growth ? (Is it in Liga's addendum ? or ?). And even without the added benefits of growth that you pointed out, I agree, that growth over order seems to be a no-brainer.

[Turin]

Ivan Pedroso said:
[
@Turin: Could you tell me the connection between admin and growth ? (Is it in Liga's addendum ? or ?). And even without the added benefits of growth that you pointed out, I agree, that growth over order seems to be a no-brainer.

Well my calculations suggest that it is admin value/2 added as a multiplier. So with growth 3 and a watchtower you get pop/200 *(1,12 (growth multiplicator) + 0,05(admin multiplicator) )

[Saber Cherry]

Zen,

I'm playing around with your spell mod, and noticed that Treelords receive no bonus when summoning vine beings, in contrast to their description. On closer inspection... you put #clearspec in the Treelord mods, which probably is the reason.

One other note - you changed the AOE for fire breath, but the fire breath that was changed was the Dragon God firebreath, not the fire drake which is actually in the spell mod. The have the same name ("Fire Breath") but different numbers.

[The_Tauren13]

Seems to me that heat and cold are no longer very important. What with both prod and growth giving 4% income, the 5% loss from the temp doesnt look like very much, when you consider that:
-the 10% supplies is of very marginal use
-4% income, 20% supplies, and .3% growth is much better than 5% income and 10% supplies
-in most cases 4% income and 15% resources is better than 5% income and 10% supplies
-1/4 of the time the scale will be closer to the desired temp (if you take it all the way to 3), so if you take cold 3 with a nation that prefers neutral temp, it will only act as (on average) 13.75% income loss, which is actually less damaging than only 2 turmoil points.

I think it would be better off being at least as damaging if not more so to help maintain the temperature as part of a nation's flavor, so I would suggest making it 7% income loss, just like the order scale. That way nations will typically stick with their prefered temp, but if you want to take some cold to e.g. help your ice devils, 1 point of order would make up for that. Now, I don't think this is possible with the modding tools, but it would be even better to make it hurt income and something else (resources?) to avoid just simply doubling up the order scale...

[The_Tauren13]

Just some quick suggested changes to the pretender descriptions:



Oracle description:
"The Oracle is tremendously strong in it's Dominion and magically powerful. Within it's sacred waters heavenly light gathers forming two Astral pearl each season."
should be
"The Oracle is tremendously strong in its Dominion and magically powerful. Within its sacred waters heavenly light gathers to form two Astral pearls each season." (it's -> its; it's -> its; pearl -> pearls; forming -> to form)

-- Son of the Sun (Fire) description:
"The Son of the Sun is a demigod of immense size claiming the divine heritage of the sun."
should be
"The Son of the Sun is a demigod of immense size claiming the divine heritage of the Sun." (sun -> Sun)
also
"The sun has gifted it's heir with such heat that once per season he receives two Fire gems."
should be
"The Sun has gifted its heir with such heat that once per season he receives two Fire gems." (sun -> Sun; it's -> its)

Hag description:
"The Hag is also a master of magic and can be adept in several of the magic Paths."
I would capitalize 'magic' also because when you said the same thing in the Rime Mariner's description you had it capitalized, so in the interest of consistancy:
"The Hag is also a master of magic and can be adept in several of the Magic Paths." (magic -> Magic)
Also, I would make the same change in the old crone's (now a hag also?) new description.

Monolith description:
"...but it can possess willing targets in order to make it's will heard and to perform tasks such as forging items for enchantment"
should be
"...but it can possess willing targets in order to make its will heard and to perform tasks such as forging items for enchantment." (it's -> its)
also
"Druids perform monthly rituals of harvest and nature at the Monolith, focusing the energy into the form of two Nature gems during seasonal festivals."
I would change to:
"Druids perform monthly rituals of harvest and nature at the Monolith, focusing the energy into the form of two Nature gems." (removed 'during seasonal festivals')

#end

[PDF]

Graeme,
I'm not convinced by your arguments :
Nature *has* some good spells, sure, but that does not make green gems more valuable than the others. IMHO they are often pretty much useless unless you play a nature-oriented nation, which is not the case with Astral, Earth, Death or Fire gems. The only less useful gems are Water...
As for Vine Ogres being inferior to Lamias, true again, but Ogres are a lesser summon and rather make better damage-absorbers than Lamias. Lamias require a higher level to cast effectively, Vine stuff having easy "improving" items.

Eventually I don't think Ogres need a boost - or rather all other low level summons require a much more serious boost !

[Oversway]

or rather all other low level summons require a much more serious boost

Are you saying this mod didn't boost the other summons enough, or are you referring to the unmodded game?