OT: Words fail me

[Hunpecked]

Alarikf writes:

>> These are not, at all, analogous to events or people or places in our own reality.

[shrug] OK. Forget "Space Empires". How about "Grand Theft Auto"? Are any real-world vehicles stolen? Any real-world police killed? Any real car wrecks, blood, or money?

>> "How many Hutus can you kill?"

I haven't played the game, but I'll bet it doesn't let me kill any real-life people whatsoever.

>> When I play this pimp game, I play with certain game objects called "women".

Yes, and these "women" are EXACTLY as real (or unreal) as the "Planets" in SEIV.

>> This is the fundamental, crucial difference.

Um, there is no difference. Both are unreal game objects with familiar names. It's kind of like naming a chess piece a "king", even though it has no resemblance to one.

>> And it is especially so becuase pre-teens play this game.

I assume pre-teens could get their hands on this game, just as they can "Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell" and "Combat Mission" and "Grand Theft Auto". So?

>> Hunpecked, you married or have a GF? Ask them what they think.

If I ever listened to my SO, I wouldn't be a game player now, would I?

Seriously, if she showed any interest at all she'd roll her eyes and say if I buy the game then she can buy [insert trinket here] for herself. She has no sympathy for women as "victims".

[AMF]

Hunpecked said:
Seriously, if she showed any interest at all she'd roll her eyes and say if I buy the game then she can buy [insert trinket here] for herself. She has no sympathy for women as "victims".

Ok, drop the games analogy and think about hard core porn? Good for society? Bad for society?

I would never advocate censorship...but in the case of child pornography, well, I think maybe I would.

All I am saying is that it is patently naive to think that a proliferation of games that degrade or humiliate a segment of the population has NO effect on that population.

I mean, come on, do you REALLY beleive that it doesn't matter AT ALL that the vast majority of surfing is porn? Or that GTA is the highest selling game (IIRC)? Does it REALLY matter ZERO?

If that is the case, then does it still matter zero if we constantly show hard core porn or rape on public TV? Or cable, if you think that's more appropriate?

Like I said, I would march for all of these rights for everybody. I am an extreme foe of censorship. But I also an extreme foe of knee jerk naivete in the name of some political beleif. Sure, this is all about the first amendment - but that's NOT what I've been talking about.

Ah, nevermind. I guess I'm not making myself clear - and I'm tired of trying.

[Grandpa Kim]

Posted by Alarikf:

But I am pretty sure that there must exist *some* line of common decency,

On that I can't agree; at best there is an average. Having found myself part of the outcast, disenfranchised minority more often than not, I strongly resist any such line.

Like Atrocities, I am a strong believer in freedom. Anything that erodes our freedom is bad! If this degree of freedom should be our downfall, then perhaps our species is not the hot sh** we think it is. Personally I think we are that hot, if not impeded by too many rules and laws. Let freedom be the judge.

(Jeez, I sound like a preacher! )

[Hunpecked]

alarikf writes:

>> Ok, drop the games analogy and think about hard core porn?

OK, I'll bite. Here are a couple points off the top of my head:

Good for society

(1) Satisfies a large market demand
(2) Most porn workers earn more than they would in other jobs and so pay more taxes

Bad for society

(3) Some porn workers get in over their heads (look up "Colleen Applegate" on Google)

I'm not sure what the point of this exercise is. Name any industry and you can probably come up with both pros and cons.

>> Does it REALLY matter ZERO?

Um, again I'm missing the point. I can't think of any industry that has ZERO effect on us.

>> I would never advocate censorship...but

Self-contradicting. Either "never" has to go, or "but" has to.

>> Ah, nevermind. I guess I'm not making myself clear - and I'm tired of trying.

Probably just as well. This business about ZERO effect on society is no basis for real-world policies. It makes as much sense as a "zero tolerance" drug policy that bans Tylenol in schools.

[Suicide Junkie]

Does it have anything to do with generic vs specific?

Eg:
Nuking the Purple Team's base to glass ...vs... Nuking the Pentagon to glass.
Mowing down generic pedestrians ...vs... Mowing down stereotypical Canadians.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

The thing that drove me to protest was not that it was a game about pimps - it was that it was a game about pimps that attempted to turn prostitution into a joke.

Space Empires doesn't turn the murder of planetary populations into a joke. If it did, I wouldn't play it. It's true it can be played that way, but that's a matter of personal use.

And quite frankly, I consider military strategy and political options benificial things to learn (So long as you don't actually start acting like a dictator)

The petition isn't trying to make the game illegal; it's simply expressing societical displeasure at something everybody who signs it finds disgusting.

[Hunpecked]

narf poit chez BOOM writes:

>> it was a game about pimps that attempted to turn prostitution into a joke.

Hmmm. I thought narf "got it". As far as I can tell, there are no real pimps in the card game. There seems to be a game role called a "pimp", but AFAIK there is no real prostitution in the game (if there were, then the player would risk arrest...a REAL arrest).

>> Space Empires doesn't turn the murder of planetary populations into a joke

Of course not. There is no murder in the game. There is a game process for planetary "bombardment" that is analogous to the "capture" of a playing piece in the game chess.

>> The petition isn't trying to make the game illegal;

I have no problem with the petition. I suspect, however, that it may not have the intended effect on the game. White Wolf may be counting on such publicity to increase sales.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Hunpecked said:
narf poit chez BOOM writes:

>> it was a game about pimps that attempted to turn prostitution into a joke.

Hmmm. I thought narf "got it". As far as I can tell, there are no real pimps in the card game. There seems to be a game role called a "pimp", but AFAIK there is no real prostitution in the game (if there were, then the player would risk arrest...a REAL arrest).

[qoute]
I called it a game...your point?
[/qoute]

>> Space Empires doesn't turn the murder of planetary populations into a joke

Of course not. There is no murder in the game. There is a game process for planetary "bombardment" that is analogous to the "capture" of a playing piece in the game chess.

[/qoute]
Indeed.
[qoute]

>> The petition isn't trying to make the game illegal;

I have no problem with the petition. I suspect, however, that it may not have the intended effect on the game. White Wolf may be counting on such publicity to increase sales.

If nobody tries to stop it, it won't be stopped.

[Hunpecked]

narf poit chez BOOM writes:

>> If nobody tries to stop it, it won't be stopped.

Well, I suspect just the opposite, but then I also predicted "Survivor" would be a commercial flop.