OT (or is it?): American Imperialism

[Atrocities]

Walmart is evil and thanks to Bill Clinton, is the downfall of the American way of life. No crap, PBS ran a NOVA show about it.

Clinton, being from the home state of Walmart, agreed to the free trade with China so that Walmart could get cheap goods. This free trade agreement put Rubbermade and many other companies out of business. Hell it was what started the recession in the first place. Before Billy Boy signed that agreement, the company I worked for was doing very well in the semi conductor market. Bill signed the agreement and over night the market collapsed. I kid you not, the bottom fell out within days of them signing that agreement and still has not recovered.

NAFTA hurt us a bit, but not as bad as free trade with China has. The Chinese swamped the world market, and the US with cheap quality low priced crap that no one could compete and voila, went under. They are not kidding when they say that the Chinese controlled Bill Clinton, they did. They paid that tratorous SOB millions and helped to get him re-elected. He ruined our economy because WalMart wanted cheap goods to sell in their stores.

Its ironic now that many Americans have to go to Walmart to buy stuff because they cannot aford to go to other stores. Ironic. (Its like feeding off of your own body, eventually you die.)

[Captain Kwok]

Umm, there is no free trade agreement between the US and China...

[Atrocities]

Captain Kwok said:
Umm, there is no free trade agreement between the US and China...

Yes, yes their is Kwok, and yes situation it has caused is real and not imagined Kwok. Needless to say it functions as Free Trade. Our deficate in trade to chine is huge and growing. If not for the tarrifs placed on Chines high end TV's one or more US Television manufactures would have been run out of business.

Front Line Story

This is indicitive of a lot of businesses. More and more and more and more companies going under because of "free trade" with china.

[Captain Kwok]

China did recently gain status in the WTO, but there isn't a free trade agreement in place with China and the US.

And do you really think that any TVs are still made in the US?

[Atrocities]

... Free Trade are Sinking American Living Standards. In this interview, he explains how recent international trade agreements -- particularly with China -- have

Trade with China complete story.

Another major source of friction between the U.S. and China has been the fairly frequent American charge that Chinese producers are guilty of dumping -- that is, producing exports and selling them in the U.S. below the price in China, or below what it costs to manufacture and ship abroad.

In recent years, U.S. companies in a variety of industrial sectors have brought trade complaints to the International Trade Commission (ITC), an independent, nonpartisan, quasi-judicial federal agency in Washington that provides trade expertise to both the legislative and executive branches of government, determines the impact of imports on U.S. industries, and directs actions against certain unfair trade practices, such as patent, trademark, and copyright infringement. The American companies have accused Chinese companies of dumping everything from shrimp to household goods like brushes and plastic bags, from tissue paper and bedroom furniture to color television sets.

If you can, watch the Front Line story on this. It is very enlightening and will explain much. Not only is the US market being hurt, but so is the Canadian economy. We are in this together whether we like it or not.

[Strategia_In_Ultima]

Doesn't matter. Your input is valued by me (and many others, I think) to alleviate ptrssure from this thread when it gets too high.

[AMF]

Hey, sorry if I sound harsh, but frankly making controversial and inflammatory political statements, and then dodging any real debate, is emblematic of the entire problem the US faces today. Watch the talking heads on CNN, Fox, or whatever. People just shout their points, and the facts are lost while they scream at each other.

This country's political state is pretty cruddy right now largely because no one actually listens any more, instead we use rhetoric and insults and volume to score points. This approach, whether in a listserv, a public forum, or on the news, is part of the problem.

Don't be part of the problem. Listen, deal in facts, rebut logically, and be willing to change your mind. I am convinced that that is one of the marks of a mature polity and civilization. When we lose the ability to look at and discuss facts then we might as well call an end to the experiment that is Democracy.

With that in mind, I call's them like I sees them. Think globally, act locally, and all that. I'm not just gonna sit by and watch the political process get murdered any more than it already has. And one of the places where I can make this effort is here. So, yes, I will call people out when they are part of the problem. Sorry if it offends, but to do otherwise would be to condone to the slowly murder of the political process. And, yes, I too am guilty of this. We all are. But we are sentient human beings who can change our minds and our behavior.

Thanks,
Alarik

StrategiaInUltima said:
Doesn't matter. Your input is valued by me (and many others, I think) to alleviate ptrssure from this thread when it gets too high.

[Puke]

alarikf said:
Hey, sorry if I sound harsh, but frankly making controversial and inflammatory political statements, and then dodging any real debate, is emblematic of the entire problem the US faces today.

StrategiaInUltima said:
Doesn't matter. Your input is valued by me (and many others, I think) to alleviate ptrssure from this thread when it gets too high.

I think he was refering to Alneyan, who was just being a wisenhiemer, and not really political.

[AMF]

Puke said:I think he was refering to Alneyan, who was just being a wisenhiemer, and not really political.

Doh! I feel stupid. Sorry! Removing foot from mouth now.

Guess I'm wound a bit tight, eh?

heh.

[AMF]

Atrocities said:
Walmart is evil and thanks to Bill Clinton, is the downfall of the American way of life. No crap, PBS ran a NOVA show about it.

One, there is NO free trade with China. It is NORMALIZED trade through the WTO. The WTO is NOT a free trade organization, it is an organization that hopes, eventually, to be free trade promoting. It is primarily a dispute resolution and tariff reducing body. Do not confuse normalized trade with free trade. It used to be called "most favoured nation" status. "The World Trade Organization (WTO) is the only international organization dealing with the global rules of trade between nations. Its main function is to ensure that trade flows as smoothly, predictably and freely as possible."

It is one of the greatest creations of the Post war world, in that it has had a key role in making the last fifty years the most prosperous the human race has ever known - it does this by standardizing trade relations, contracts, and lowering tariffs. The theoretical ultimate goal if the WTO is universal free trade. But it ain't there yet. Today it is primarily a dispute resolution body.

Two, to "blame" Clinton for the WTO (ie: normalizing trade with China) is not only ridiculous but completely ignores the facts for the sake of you getting in another (tiresome) jab at Clinton. Aside from the fact that it was Nixon that normalized relations with China in 1972, businessmen since 1970 have been clamouring for trade with China - and they have been overwhelmingly republican. The vote in Congress to normalize trade with China was very bipartisan and, frankly, very welcomed by the republicans in Congress. Last time I checked the Congress needed to ratify treaties - check the vote and then tell me how much you hate the WTO.

Needless to say, it's ridiculous to blame Clinton for everything wrong with the world. Separation of powers is the way the government works here. By your logic, Bush should be held accountable for everything that goes wrong while he's in office - and, oh, hey, by the way, his party controls all three branches of government. Clinton had to make do with only one. So, hey, hows Bush doing?

It makes rightists seem REAL stupid when Clinton hasn't been president for over four years and they still blame him for all the worlds' ills. It speaks to a certain amount of defensiveness and unwillingness or inability to exhibit any iota of objectivity or ability to self-criticize. Or a bleeif that they're oh so victimized by the left. It must be so terrible to be the victim all the time...but it's pretty hard to keep that facade up when the entire government is controlled by the Right now. But then again, I've never met a far rightist who could ever admit they made a mistake or were wrong about anything. Plenty of moderate republicans, of which I used to be one, could do so...But they have become pretty timid nowadays. The only one who isn't a coward is McCain. Everyone else kisses De'Lay's butt.

The hell with this. I am so tired of hearing the same broken record go on and on...there is such a thing as criticism and then there is mindless parotting of party lines without regard for facts, or for willful ignorance of facts. Propoganda is the rule of the day, both sides play into it. But as individuals we can make a choice to not be part of the problem. Don't be part of the problem.

Good bye.

Oh, here's the basic WTO pitch from their website:

The World Trade Organization (WTO) is the only international organization dealing with the global rules of trade between nations. Its main function is to ensure that trade flows as smoothly, predictably and freely as possible.

The result is assurance. Consumers and producers know that they can enjoy secure supplies and greater choice of the finished products, components, raw materials and services that they use. Producers and exporters know that foreign markets will remain open to them.

The result is also a more prosperous, peaceful and accountable economic world. Virtually all decisions in the WTO are taken by consensus among all member countries and they are ratified by members' parliaments. Trade friction is channelled into the WTO's dispute settlement process where the focus is on interpreting agreements and commitments, and how to ensure that countries' trade policies conform with them. That way, the risk of disputes spilling over into political or military conflict is reduced.

By lowering trade barriers, the WTO’s system also breaks down other barriers between peoples and nations.

At the heart of the system — known as the multilateral trading system — are the WTO’s agreements, negotiated and signed by a large majority of the world’s trading nations, and ratified in their parliaments. These agreements are the legal ground-rules for international commerce. Essentially, they are contracts, guaranteeing member countries important trade rights. They also bind governments to keep their trade policies within agreed limits to everybody’s benefit.

The agreements were negotiated and signed by governments. But their purpose is to help producers of goods and services, exporters, and importers conduct their business.

The goal is to improve the welfare of the peoples of the member countries