OT = How Does Shrapnel Stay In Business

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
if it weren't for Windows, or something else like it, computers would have never had the mainstream appeal that they do. Without the GUI interface your typical non-techie, the vast majority or the population, would not see the need for having a computer to begin with

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How little does the latest generation know anyway ? In the beginning there was Xerox PARC, then came Apple and close on their heels Atari and Amiga. But then along came a blundering not yet behemoth Microsoft, who worked closely with IBM and Intel to CRUSH LIKE ANTS anybody who threatened the IBM PC. But little did they know that people like Dell, Compaq, and the other cloners would whip big blues butt in the home markets. This allowed the survival of alternative microprocessor manufacturers, who have steadily begun to regain the ground they lost. The monopolistic triad is finally starting to lose, and by **** it is not a DAY TOO SOON.

**** WITHOUT THOSE THREE WE WOULD BE TEN YEARS INTO THE NEXT GENERATION ALREADY ****

[Miles]

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
... Back before MS Windozer plowed all the competition under I was writing relatively simple things in Turbo Pascal like usenet news readers. And my simple MS-DOS newsreader ran to 20,000 lines if you include the supporting units as well as the main code...

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By any chance, was that the 'Trumpet' newsreader?

Miles

[geoschmo]

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How little does the latest generation know anyway ?

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ROFL!

Oh I wish I was part of the "latest generation". To know what I know now and to have the Last twenty years back...

I hope you didn't perceive my comments as some sort of flame. What you are describing sounds like a great game. And I have no doubt in your abilities to pull it off. I am simply saying if you are waiting for someone to hand you a check up front, you'll be waiting a while.

I am not in anyway a programming whiz. In fact except for a little playing with BASIC programs as a kid on a trash-80 and Vic-20 (I'm dating myself now ) I have never had the patience to do anything close to what you are talking about.

As far as my comments regarding Windows, I am by no means an appologist for "The Bill". You missed my point I think when I said "Windows, or something like it". Gates did nothing extordinary except take advantage when he saw an opportunity. If he hadn't, someone else would have. I think the term is "Zeitgeist".

My point was simply that without making computers more attractive and accesable to the unwashed masses, you would still be tinkering around on your 8Mhz, 512K ram, 20 MB hard drive computer(Heck my first three computers didn't even have hard drives. Anybody remember casette tapes? ) writing incrededibly efficient 20K code-line programs with which to amaze your other computer nerd friends. But would never even be considering writing a program to sell to casual gamers.

I am not a programmer, but I am a history buff, and I know a little about economics. It's all supply and demand.

Geo

[Baron Munchausen]

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Originally posted by LCC:
That stuff would be done by macrocommands invoking system functions through the engine interface "calldown". Depending on the relative address range of a processor, a macrocommand file can be as big as you like and have as many functions in it as needed. Just one of the functions needs to link up to the chain - the one named after the file and the same as the command name that invoked the file.

Shared data storage space is obtained off calls (through calldown) to system functions for memory at runtime, then the address of the data obtained is stored in data structures defined by the macrocommand designer. The address of the structures is placed in ADB entries and pulled out by the ones who need to share data pointed to. Do I really need to explain trivial stuff like this?

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IF the tools to do the same sort of programming that you grew accustomed to on the PDP-11 were available for Wind'oohs you'd have a chance of being correct. Once you check into what must actually be used to program in Wind'oohs these days you will realize that there's nothing 'trivial' about programming anymore. "Hello, World" will probably come out to several hundred kbytes on most contemporary MS compilers. Now, if you can find the tools you want in a *IX environment -- not impossible since the *IX systems are much better at preserving 'legacy' software -- and can write a decent program for Gnu/Linux and/or FreeBSD in the style you describe you might have something. Every little bit helps to increase the popularity and power of the free OSes.

[Baron Munchausen]

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Originally posted by Miles:
By any chance, was that the 'Trumpet' newsreader?

Miles

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No, Trumpet was an Aussie product if I recall. It was very much a "GUI" program too, if only in the MS-DOS style. Mine was a BBS door meant to be used in TTY fashion. Largely a clone of the *IX newsreader 'nn', actually. I was trying to make the Waffle BBS usenet news transport system accessible to Fidonet systems like Opus-CBCS and QBBS. It never quite reached 'official' release stage though. It was working fine but needed lots of "polish" in the user-interface department. My UUCP feed died due to the continuing upheaval at the local university as they tried to modernize their systems. I managed to get a PPP connecton to keep up with my own news reading but never got a regular UUCP flow again & never finished it.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 03 August 2001).]

[Atrocities]

My god this topic has taken on a life of its own. I am seriously impressed with the subject matter being discussed here.

[dogscoff]

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Originally posted by LCC: **** WITHOUT THOSE THREE WE WOULD BE TEN YEARS INTO THE NEXT GENERATION ALREADY ****

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Damn right. Wintel vs The world (particularly the demise of the Amiga) is a story of crap technology/ superior marketing triumphing over superior technology/ crap marketing. Sad really.

Oh, and about the Amiga - yeah, I ran out of blind optimism years ago (in the "dark years" of the Amiga) but I still maintain a glimmer of hope, and I think it's a cause worth supporting. Amiga is a good philosophy as well as a fine system, and when the time comes to support them with my wallet, I'll be there.

I own and use a PC only reluctantly. I bought my current machine because I was broke and it was the cheapest way to get Online. I have upgraded it to 2 or 3 times it's previous capacity, but at a *total* cost of UKP150 (~USD300) at the most. I refuse to invest serious money in PC hardware, because the of the absurd depreciation which has been created by the artificial progress of {BIG NUMBER} PC culture.

As soon as a viable alternative to my PC (ie something good for Space empires and net access) appears within my price range, be it Amiga, Linux, Mac or other I will buy it and pass my PC back into circulation.

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"Pinky, are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
"I think so Brain but, if you replace the P with an O, my name would be Oinky, wouldn't it?"

[This message has been edited by dogscoff (edited 03 August 2001).]