But do you really like SC in dominions2 ?

liga · #1 February 28th, 2005, 10:42 AM

Probably this is an old question ... anyway ... now I have played quite a lot game (both MP and SP) and have the strong impression that SCs drive up most of the game's beauty ...

is quite simple, once you have learnt, equipping and scripting a SCs ... is much more difficult (and strategy requiring) to build up and script a well working army ...

in MP the games soon become a races toward the uniques SC ... and is not funny at all spent several turn try to prepare and script a nice army and look it killed by a "normal" easy scripted VQ.

Probably after most than 1 year of play this is the only thing that really could make me be annoyed by this fantastic game ... is it only my impression ?

Of course you could say me that SC could be killed ... but you need to know the SC you are fighting and prepare the right army and that is much more time and resources consuming that building up the SC.

good play
Liga

Oversway · #2 February 28th, 2005, 11:34 AM

Some people like SCs, others do not. I'd say it is a matter of opinion. For me, there would be a nice balance of SC and regular armies.

I agree the unmodded game with defaults settings does seem to have a "race for the SCs" feel to it. However there are settings and mods that adress this.

tinkthank · #3 February 28th, 2005, 11:37 AM

Although this topic may very well belong to the dead horse species, it can always be fun to beat upon those for awhile.

I belong to the party of people who dislike having large numbers of nicely mixed armies decimated by a few very powerful beings, both thematically, in terms of game balance, and in terms of "fun" (which is primary for me in judging any aspect of D2). I like the fact that this option is open as a possibility in Dom2, but think this option is a bit too "strong", both thematically and in terms of balance.

I would wish that the ability for doing so (making SCs) could be toned down, made more difficult, or at least have an option in a Game Setup type of screen which would allow for this to be up to the game creator (sketched in some of my Wishlist posts).

Thilock_Dominus · #4 February 28th, 2005, 11:39 AM

I can't really say. I'm a single player dom2 user, so it doesn't bother me. I wouldn't have any Idea how a VQ in MP would be like.
Isn't there a simple anti-VQ strategy if you know your opponent uses VQ?

The_Tauren13 · #5 February 28th, 2005, 01:28 PM

I think toning life drain down a bit, (which I believe I heard was in the books for Dom III

) would really help. SCs might still be possible, but quite a bit more difficult to get/use...

BigDaddy · #6 February 28th, 2005, 01:45 PM

I'd rather see SC's built by experience AND items rather than just items. It would require a more well developed leveling system though.

liga · #7 February 28th, 2005, 01:50 PM

Yes .. probably life drain need to be powered down ... but also I feel in great agreement with tinkthank about the fact that SC are also a lot unthematic ... a player making a VQ as her/his best SC could be of any theme/race ... and also all the air nations go to Air Queen and all the Blood Nations go for Ice Devils ...

It could be that the Ascension Wars are to be win by the God that is able to get soon the favors of this powerful beings, but I don't like that too much and anyway since my old years of Dungeons and Dragons I hate the powerful 20 level fighter who can survive killing thousands of goblins

... probably what is missing (in my opinion, of course) is a system making really easier to hurt someone if it is totally surrounded or something like that ...

So also a SC could have hard problem against 100 heavy infantry

anyway, good play to all
Liga

WraithLord · #8 February 28th, 2005, 03:24 PM

I think that hugh armies should be able to kill even the most potent SCs.
I think the game should enforce a set of penalties/rules to make sure that no solo unit can destroy armies made of many hundreds of units.

It gives a good rpg feel to "nurture" a SC and see how potent it becomes. But I think if most powerful units will have major impact in battlefields but are not a one unit army that rpg feel will stay without the SCs problems.

Boron · #9 February 28th, 2005, 04:19 PM

I have to admit that i like battles between armies and mages more . When i play SP i always take Impossible AIs and try to beat them with national troops only . Normally i fail but it is fun

.

Unfortunately vs. a VQ any national army expect fliers ( mainly Caelum ) is obsolete on turn 8-10 already .
Vs. a VQ there are many counters though like earlygame dust to dust etc. .

But vs. a well equipped AQ and the like there aren't many counters .

The Problem with SCs is that they are too cheap . An AQ costs 50 Airgems + about 50 gems for Equipment , about the same for most other SCs . If you invest those 100 gems into troops those troops can't beat the SC . 30 Devils are e.g. 210 Blood thats of similiar value as 100 gems but even they can't beat a well equipped AQ/ID/AD... .
Getting the right Mages to beat the SC is also difficult and some Nations lack them even completely .

If the SCs would cost 200-400% more then they wouldn't be such an issue maybe . An AQ for 200 Airgems e.g. would still be summoned and be great but then a bit more in line with the costs of other stuff .

#10 February 28th, 2005, 04:21 PM

I've played any number of games where you conquer territory then raise taxes to build more armies to conquer more territory. For me, SCs and powerful magic are the key selling points for Dom2.

And when I've driven SCs, I've never felt completely comfident in their survival (against other players). There's always risk.

The reason people race for the unique SCs isn't that you lose the game without them (I've won games with national armies and national mages). It's that they're unique.

P.S. How often do VQs actually get played these days?