But do you really like SC in dominions2 ?

[Thilock_Dominus]

I can't really say. I'm a single player dom2 user, so it doesn't bother me. I wouldn't have any Idea how a VQ in MP would be like.
Isn't there a simple anti-VQ strategy if you know your opponent uses VQ?

[The_Tauren13]

I think toning life drain down a bit, (which I believe I heard was in the books for Dom III ) would really help. SCs might still be possible, but quite a bit more difficult to get/use...

[BigDaddy]

I'd rather see SC's built by experience AND items rather than just items. It would require a more well developed leveling system though.

[liga]

Yes .. probably life drain need to be powered down ... but also I feel in great agreement with tinkthank about the fact that SC are also a lot unthematic ... a player making a VQ as her/his best SC could be of any theme/race ... and also all the air nations go to Air Queen and all the Blood Nations go for Ice Devils ...

It could be that the Ascension Wars are to be win by the God that is able to get soon the favors of this powerful beings, but I don't like that too much and anyway since my old years of Dungeons and Dragons I hate the powerful 20 level fighter who can survive killing thousands of goblins

... probably what is missing (in my opinion, of course) is a system making really easier to hurt someone if it is totally surrounded or something like that ...

So also a SC could have hard problem against 100 heavy infantry

anyway, good play to all
Liga

[WraithLord]

I think that hugh armies should be able to kill even the most potent SCs.
I think the game should enforce a set of penalties/rules to make sure that no solo unit can destroy armies made of many hundreds of units.

It gives a good rpg feel to "nurture" a SC and see how potent it becomes. But I think if most powerful units will have major impact in battlefields but are not a one unit army that rpg feel will stay without the SCs problems.

I've played any number of games where you conquer territory then raise taxes to build more armies to conquer more territory. For me, SCs and powerful magic are the key selling points for Dom2.

And when I've driven SCs, I've never felt completely comfident in their survival (against other players). There's always risk.

The reason people race for the unique SCs isn't that you lose the game without them (I've won games with national armies and national mages). It's that they're unique.

P.S. How often do VQs actually get played these days?

[liga]

P.S. How often do VQs actually get played these days?

I don't know ...anyway scripting invulnearbility, attack and than 3 x life drain is very difficult to stop for most of the nations

[Ironhawk]

The game does enforce a set of penalties which keeps solo units from wiping out entire armies. Namely: Fatigue and the -1 defense per attack after the first rule. Unfortunately, life drains drains both HP and fatigue so you are doomed anyway. Take away lifedrain and building an SC becomes more complicated.

izaqyos said:
I think that hugh armies should be able to kill even the most potent SCs.
I think the game should enforce a set of penalties/rules to make sure that no solo unit can destroy armies made of many hundreds of units.

It gives a good rpg feel to "nurture" a SC and see how potent it becomes. But I think if most powerful units will have major impact in battlefields but are not a one unit army that rpg feel will stay without the SCs problems.

[Yvelina]

Taking life drain without removing regeneration and reivigoration from items will not have much of an effect. It will certainly shift the balance of power, but it will not bring back any of the fun.

[Saber Cherry]

Yvelina said:
Taking life drain without removing regeneration and reivigoration from items will not have much of an effect. It will certainly shift the balance of power, but it will not bring back any of the fun.

Not true. Regeneration and reinvigoration work once per turn, while life drain works once per strike. An ice devil with +200% heroic quickness, magical quickness, boots of the behemoth, and 2 weapons gets 12 attacks per turn and can trample lots of units. In return it generates 6 times the normal fatigue, plus a huge amount of fatigue from trample.

There is no way to equip this unit with reinvigoration items so that it will regain all of its fatigue each turn (it would probably fall asleep after 2 turns). There is no way to equip it so it will regenerate all its damage every turn, even if it is just up against hordes of weaker units and has heavy armor and ethereality.

However, give it 2 blood thorns, and it suddenly has 12 lifesteal attacks per turn - more than enough to replenish all fatigue (even from 100 to 0) and restore health to above maximum (even from 1 HP) every turn - except when fighting entirely lifeless armies.

Regeneration and reinvigoration items can make a combat unit much more powerful, and reinvigoration items are especially nice for mages. But they cannot create super-monsters that singlehandedly destroy massive armies unless there are units that are already overpowered and underpriced. In which case, the solution is to change those units. Lifedrain, on the other hand, can turn "balanced" units into virtually invincible units... the way lifedrain currently works. But lifedrain is set to change for Dominions 3.