But do you really like SC in dominions2 ?

[BigDaddy]

I was wondering about Life Drain SC's versus SC's, even maringal ones with big swords like, Frost/Fire Brand(or armor piercing/negating), which are cheap, 1 handed, and do huge damage.

[liga]

Panther ... i really like your answer ...

that's true! SC are good just as "hero" in an army (and theyr are, of course, funny) ... what I don't' like is just have a SC that kills armies alone!

... anyway, making sure that no one could really get rid of all fatigue alone (with items and spells) could help a lot!

good play
Liga

[Yvelina]

I would have never believe I'd write that, but I mostly agree with Panther. The best battles are these in which well equiped supercombatants and a retinue of well-scripted mages face off. I have saved three battles like this, and sometimes watch them and draw conclusions. I think we posted one or two here.

Personally, I am not too worried about SCs taking on armies and winning. If one rushes for SCs, she will get low-end SCs by turn 10-15. By that time, good nations can come up with a mage-based anti-SC squad. Not all nations, of course.

As for those who try, on turn 30, to fight SCs or mage squads with vanilla national troops, I have no sympathy for them. Cavarly charges against tanks have been tried, and I have no sympathy for those who got slaughtered in them. The Russians claim that Gen. Dovator had quite a bit of success using partisan cavalry tactics in WWII... but even if that's true, it's only the exception that confirms the rule.

[st.patrik]

I think that the game balance is shifted too much towards SCs right now.

The way I see it there's a continuum between few, powerful troops and many weak troops, and right now Dom II is definitely more toward the 'few but powerful' end - this is simply the biggest bang for your buck. I think we'd see more strategic depth if SCs were made a little less potent.

I know that there are counters to SCs, but some nations don't have easy counters, especially for high MR SCs (most all the items mentioned (eye shield, etc.) have an MR check, so they become pretty much ineffective with a SC with a MR of 20+). These nations are hard to play competitively. NE Pan is a great example - also Ulm - of a nation that would do much better if SCs weren't so powerful.

I also agree with the comment about life-draining weapons - this is the single factor that often pushes a SC from 'challenging' to 'impossible' for a regular army to deal with.

[Boron]

Yvelina said:
As for those who try, on turn 30, to fight SCs or mage squads with vanilla national troops, I have no sympathy for them. Cavarly charges against tanks have been tried, and I have no sympathy for those who got slaughtered in them. The Russians claim that Gen. Dovator had quite a bit of success using partisan cavalry tactics in WWII... but even if that's true, it's only the exception that confirms the rule.

Rambo III

OT : One serious concern with the Anti-SC-Mages is though always that many in theory decent mages ( e.g. Pythium , Theurgs + Communion ) get killed easily by anti-mage spells like Rain of Stones/Earthquake etc. . Both can be casted very easily by Tartarians .

A Drain Life squad is more expensive then a few SCs . Either you take Demiliches or stuff like Sauromancers + Deathstaff or you take the Drain life Standards but they also cost 20 deathgems .
A Banelord with drain life standard + boots of flying for mobility + jade armor costs 10 deathgems + [ 20 Deathgems + 5 Earth + 5 Water + 5 Air gems ] * Forgeboni .
Equipping this Banelord into a thug would be cheaper and probably more promising .

The problem is that imo there is always a too big rush for the ultraelites . If you have mech men and devils you won't use other troops expect those 2 .
If you have tartarians why should you ever use any other kind of mages ?
If you have wish why shouldn't you wish each turn for 1-2 AQs or similiar SCs each turn ?

There are 2-3 troops / mages / Scs / weapons / spells that are so uber that you use them almost exclusively once you have them .

[PvK]

Boron said:

If you have tartarians why should you ever use any other kind of mages ?

Because other mages don't cost astral gems to summon.

If you have wish why shouldn't you wish each turn for 1-2 AQs or similiar SCs each turn ?

Because the game was over before you clamhoarded that much astral income, or because you're playing a mod that nerfs clams.

There are 2-3 troops / mages / Scs / weapons / spells that are so uber that you use them almost exclusively once you have them .

I think you meant to write "I" where you wrote "you". I don't do those things. Nevertheless, I agree that I would rather see some of the "obvious super deals" cost more like what they are worth.

PvK

[Yvelina]

BigDaddy said:
I was wondering about Life Drain SC's versus SC's, even maringal ones with big swords like, Frost/Fire Brand(or armor piercing/negating), which are cheap, 1 handed, and do huge damage.

These work, but I presonally prefer using swords that provide damage to which the enemy is particularly vulnerable. For example, herald lances against undead and demons, elf banes against elemental royalty, cleavers against constructs, etc...

The problem with using marginal commanders is that against a full blown SC they have trouble hitting, and that even when they hit, they are not garanteed a one-shot kill. Yes, you can increase their strength and attack with items, but then they become quite expensive - you are better off summonning a moderately tough commander to give them to.

That said, a Niefel Jarl will have no problem one-shoting a SC with the appropriate weapon, and Vanir and Thuatra may actually survive long enough to wear down the SC.

Yesterday or so, I had a fight in which a newly-recruited, but well-equiped Vanadrott supported by two Vanherses accidentally ran into a fully-equiped, highly-experienced earth king with boosted regeneration. The Vanadrott fought for nearly 40 turns before catching two blows in quick succession, and dying, but his escorts ultimately won, and gathered his equipment. Note that these were raiders scripted for fighting national armies and province defense, not SCs.

The earth king would not have stood a chance against a squad sent especially for him. A SC without the crazy regeneration (30+) would have died even against the Vandrott.