Recruitable Unit Rebalance Version 7.51 Released.

[TheSelfishGene]

Great mod! Really addressed some outstanding issues. I do have some short thoughts on the mod however;

Cavalry is perhaps a bit too cheap. There is a substantial difference between 10 armor and 20 armor; its not just double in effectiveness, its like 4-5x. So when you make, say, Black Knights cheaper AND stronger, they become pretty much the buffest national units in the game. Which may or may not be a bad thing, balance is not a zero sum game and Ulm pays for its Knights by being weak in many other areas, but i gather the Cavalry mod was added in at the last minute and didn't go through as rigerous a testing procedure.

I like the Firbolg Rule of Thumb; is this recruitable unit better than a 10 gem, 5-Path Firbolg? If it is, and its only costing me 50 gold, you might need to think about adjusting something here or there.

Short Bow archers seem useless now compared to xbows because everything has fairly decent armor. I think, imo, a bit too much armor was added to the game...at least with indie troops.

Some random thoughts and obserations:

Prince General has not been improved. Still 10/10 hitpoints.

Lowbowmen have 10 precision instead of 12? That should be changed back. I'm not really certain i like the Change; a weaker, faster firing crossbow...

I like the Change to Imperial Tien Chi troops.

Could you buff Black Forest Ulm's Illuminated One's somehow? Give them the assassinate abiliy, or a slight chance of causing bad luck in the province they occupy. They aren't bad, but BF Ulm is a pretty weak theme that relies almost 100% on a buffed VQ. Trying to play them WITHOUT a combat VQ is a very difficult exercise with their limited magic skills and poor morale troops. The Illuminated Ones are well rounded but rather inefficient per cost; and with death, BF Ulm has a hard time with upkeep, so a 160 gold non sacred caster is more expensive in the long run he looks at first. I see the I.O.s as a kind of traveling old man, with train of servents and hooded girls behind him, journeying to dine at the tables of foreign kings and dignitaries; practising unholy rights at night in his room when no one is looking, throwing poisonous converational barbs at state dinners, subtly manipulating the crowd, stirring up strife wherever he goes, and sometimes just for kicks dominating some poor serf to go burn his own house down, or kill some noble he disliked.

So i'm fond of them but would like them to a be a bit more powerful than they are now.

[Scott Hebert]

BF Ulm? Mass Ranger annihilation works well, so I hear.

Illuminated Ones, as written, are rather disappointing. Granted, they ARE spies, and they should pay for it, but it could work out better. For me, changing Illuminated Ones/Members of the Second Tier from Astral Primary to Blood Primary would be a useful thing to do.

Illuminated One: B
Member of the Second Tier: SBB

Anyway, just a thought.

[Huzurdaddi]

Scott Hebert said:
BF Ulm? Mass Ranger annihilation works well, so I hear.

Illuminated Ones, as written, are rather disappointing. Granted, they ARE spies, and they should pay for it, but it could work out better. For me, changing Illuminated Ones/Members of the Second Tier from Astral Primary to Blood Primary would be a useful thing to do.

Illuminated One: B
Member of the Second Tier: SBB

Anyway, just a thought.

I have to second that. The change would be pretty thematic for BF and would make it into a powerhouse.

[quantum_mechani]

I don't think BF Ulm needs any kind of boost (I would put them in the top ten nations/themes), but a thematic change might be fun. Such as giving the member of the second tier the assassin ability and raising his price.

[Scott Hebert]

My main issues with BF Ulm, from a 'fun' standpoint, are:

1. Bloodhunting Micromanagement (no fun)
2. Pretender 'must' be able to cast Sanguine Heritage
3. Illuminated Ones are pointless (Fortunetellers do everything they do and more)
4. Scales are bad (Death and Misfortune are things you don't want with a Blood nation)
5. Rather random Bloodhunters (I'm not paying 160g for a 1-blood hunter)

As an aside, Zen's mod making the Fountain produce Blood Slaves every turn is REALLY GOOD for BF Ulm.

[quantum_mechani]

Scott Hebert said:

1. Bloodhunting Micromanagement (no fun)
2. Pretender 'must' be able to cast Sanguine Heritage
3. Illuminated Ones are pointless (Fortunetellers do everything they do and more)
4. Scales are bad (Death and Misfortune are things you don't want with a Blood nation)
5. Rather random Bloodhunters (I'm not paying 160g for a 1-blood hunter)

The Illuminated ones are not pointless. They can be used as spies when needed, and are not capital only. Yes, it is a good idea to have 3B3D on your pretender when playing BF, much like taking an non recuperating/immoral pretender with Arco is a good idea. Blood micro is a problem with all blood nations (and nations in general in the late game). The scales and expensive hunters just mean it needs to be played in a different way than most blood nations

[The_Tauren13]

BF Ulm is weak: No elemental magic, a national spell that cant even be cast by national mages, starting death gem income but no death mages, no good artilery mages, no good ritual mages, pathetic blood hunters, etc. The list goes on and on. However, it is very fun to play, which, by my standards, makes it better than Pythium

[TheSelfishGene]

quantum_mechani said:

The Illuminated ones are not pointless. They can be used as spies when needed, and are not capital only. Yes, it is a good idea to have 3B3D on your pretender when playing BF, much like taking an non recuperating/immoral pretender with Arco is a good idea. Blood micro is a problem with all blood nations (and nations in general in the late game). The scales and expensive hunters just mean it needs to be played in a different way than most blood nations

... Which is why i wanted them to cause a slight amount of bad luck in the province they are in. The game doesn't really have the kind of robust "cloak and dagger" mechanics that the Illuminated One is supposed to effect upon the hapless empires around them.

Strictly speaking, BF Ulm is average; its weak if played as a 'standard' nation, just picking any old pretender, but decent as a vehicle for the VQ. I don't doubt that for some, that is enough. For myself, Death/Blood economies suck and i hate having only about 2 pretenders to realistically choose from. And the Illuminated One is priced correctly for his abilities, which is fair enough. But i'd rather see a more expensive, more capable I.O. that i could do something more useful with than cause unrest or cast the occasional scry, or have those abilities be more focused and complementary to BF Ulm.

[Graeme Dice]

Scott Hebert said:
4. Scales are bad (Death and Misfortune are things you don't want with a Blood nation)

Misfortune doesn't impact BF Ulm very much once you have enough fortune tellers.

5. Rather random Bloodhunters (I'm not paying 160g for a 1-blood hunter)

Well, the difference in cost between these and warlock apprentices is about 5 blood slaves. It's in the very early game where their weakness is most noticeable.

One major weakness is that while vampire counts can make nice thugs, BF ulm doesn't have the low-level elemental mages (especially earth) that are needed for this to work. If you gave sanguine heritage to default or IF Ulm, you'd have quite a monster on your hands in very short notice.

[TheSelfishGene]

Graeme Dice said:

... and its a Death economy, so your income will be constantly shrinking. So having many IOs mean more and more upkeep for less and less income. If you don't 'cross the Rubicon', militarily speaking, fairly early on, you die in a spiral of bankruptcy. This is of course an issue for everyone to some extent, but it hits BF Ulm harder and more directly than most.