Recruitable Mage Rebalance - seeking comments

[Graeme Dice]

The_Tauren13 said:
Youre making the foolish assumption that the skull standards cost would remain the same under such a mod.

How is that a foolish assumption? Most people will not manage to catch everything that allows what they consider to be "overpowered" tactics when they make their mods. If they increase the costs on skull standards and wraithswords, then they'll have to do the same to skullfaces and skull staves, since they all allow drain life to be cast. They'll also have to increase the cost of demiliches, wraith lords, mound fiends, and a nearly endless list of summoned units and commanders. Eventually, you'll be left with nothing more than sending large numbers of heavy infantry at each other, with the victory going not to the better player, but to the player who picked a good bless effect and/or one of the nations with good infantry.

[The_Tauren13]

PvK said:
* Make life drain weapons cost at least 40 death gems or 80 blood slaves.

How does that not include the skull standard?

[ChrisByler]

Demiliches, wraith lords and mound fiends can be banished and take extra damage from herald lances, holy pyre, etc. Golems or firbolgs or whatever with wraith swords can't and don't. You can empower those things in death - but then you're back to very expensive, just like the modded lifedrain weapons (which of course should include the standard - half the point is to make it harder to lifedrain without bringing your death mages to the battlefield where they can be killed).

[Saber Cherry]

Um, this discussion on lifedrain, while interesting, is getting a little off-topic... but if any of you have any more thoughts on specific overpriced, underpriced, and useless mages, please share them. Or thoughts on whether mages in general are overly powerful/cheap or overly weak/expensive, or just perfect.

[Scott Hebert]

As stated before, several national mages are undercosted (by formula), while at least as many are overcosted.

If we're going to get into summoned commanders, I feel like a blanket increase of 2x to 3x cost on all summoned commanders (except for perhaps the Revenant) would do well.

Specifically, Spectres and Lamia Queens are far too cheap for their abilities. The main issues with these (in particular) are that they have no upkeep; and once you are able to summon one, you will soon easily be able to summon the other.

The large-term ramification of the above issues is that research levels become largely meaningless. That is, your research pool snowballs. And, unlike Revenants, Lamia Queens and Spectres are also quite useful as combat mages.

Suggested solutions:

1) While not possible with Dom2 (I think), giving summoned mages a magic gem upkeep would be one way to limit them.

2) Reduce all summoned mages' research levels to 0.

Anyway, just my thoughts.

[Oversway]

Maybe just a gem cost increase would be enough.

[Scott Hebert]

A gem-cost increase changes the balance, but does not change the paradigm.

Being unable to use summoned mages for research would change the paradigm, and therefore be a more drastic change.

I agree that increasing the gem cost moves the balance point, but that does nothing to change the inherent position.

[Oversway]

You would summon tons of lamia queens and specters for research if the gem cost was 2x - 3x?

I would summon some of them to get other paths, but I'd look for cheaper research options and spend my gems on other things.

Actually, that is what I do now at the current price. Maybe I should amass them more....

[Scott Hebert]

I don't know many mage researchers more efficient than the Lamia Queen and the Specter.

While I may not summon as many of them if they were triple the cost, the fact that they still wouldn't be horrible at research and would be quite useful in combat says a lot.

As for cheaper... does anyone know of a cheaper alternative to the Specter or the Lamia Queen?

[Huzurdaddi]

In games I have played I think that I have only relied upon summoned casters as researchers when playing ermor. I suppose I would do the same with CW but I never play them. Summoned casters are make for cracking heads not research.