Realtime or turnbased tactical combat?

[douglas]

klausD said:
Douglas,
You mean you have infos about the way the realttime tactical combat will be?

We will see if this is really the approach. The new strategy game imperial glory for example is also a hybrid tactical realtime/strategic turnbased game and in tactical combat each player has to check constantly the ranges of every unit without the options to predefine the behaviour of his units you describe. This means not of course that SEV will have the same system but it shows the usual (and questionable) way modern hybrid games go.

No, I don't actually have solid information on how that will work, and I won't until either the game is released or I get in the beta. Of course, if I get in the beta, I'll be bound by the NDA to not tell you anything about it until release, so either way you'll just have to wait for the release date or an official comment from Malfador. I'm just figuring that Aaron knows about the concerns of longtime fans that realtime combat could become a micromanagement clickfest nightmare, and what I described is the logical extension of SEIV's strategies and would solve the problem quite nicely.

klausD said:
General
The more I think about the topic the more I assume that the SEV designers are in search for the mainstream bucks. Its their good right to do with their game what they want, but this new way excludes many of longtime SE-fans which prefer turnbased thinking over realtime clicking.

Yes, it does seem that Aaron is going for big bucks to some extent this time, he's even going with a retail distributor instead of online distribution only. However, I think he's established far to good a reputation with his current fanbase to want to risk alienating them. Plus, too many prominent members of the online community have expressed their opinions and their (very similar and quite reasonable) suggestions for making realtime combat not a clickfest for him to reasonably ignore them.

[Captain Kwok]

Have no worries my friends!

There are many excellent options available for the real-time tactical combat, including the ability to pause every X seconds to issue orders to your ships if you want - this can be used to easily recreate turn-based combat except all ships would execute their orders at the same time during the interval.

Even cooler is that you can even just focus on controlling just one ship (as if you're the commander) while keeping the others under AI.

It's not at all about who can click the fastest or anything like that.

I can't say anything more than that, but again don't worry.

[Captain Kwok]

Sure, perhaps a bit of real-time combat might help the appeal of the game and add some eye candy, but there are far more benefits to having such a system. It eliminates 95% of all the silliness and lopsideness that occurs in a turn-based system.

[klausD]

Said two beta testers, who have actually had the opportunity to try out the new realtime combat system. Does that do anything to settle your concerns, klausD?

No, sorry to say that it does not settle my concerns. For example Captain Kwok writes that it is possible to pause the game every x seconds. Well this means that I have to press the pause button myself. This is not a good message. Because if I dont press it (because I am too slow or the cat jumps on the desk or I simple dont like to press it...) I will loose. So I am forced to press in the right moment and not before or thereafter. And voila the clickfest begins.
And the remark that you can just control a single ship. Well this gives me the rest. WHAT is Space Empires? Its a galactic strategy game! Its not Elite. Controlling a single ship with your heroes have nothing to do with such a 4X game. If I want to play a single ship/hero game I am playing Elite or Starfury.
3. Captain Kwok also says that a turn-based system is silly and lopsy. If this is the new design philosphy behind SEV so why not changing the strategy part too to real-time? I am quite sure SEVI (if it somedays arises) will have this.
Of course with a pause button and no clickfest.

[se5a]

dude, you're a blockhead.
I'm sorry, but it's true.

it's not a clickfest. full stop. just shutup if you are not going to belive those in the know till theres a demo out.

[Mephisto]

Kwok said you could handle a single ship in combat if you want, the rest would be AI controlled. Such option was present in SE4 for planets as well and you were not required to use it.

Further, he said that combat could be paused every x seconds. Such a statement implies that there is an option to make the game stop automatically every x seconds without user interaction. Have a look at the Combat Missions series to see how such a system can work very nicely.

[Zarsynn]

I was concerned a good while ago about this awesome game series going to a RTS hybrid too. Let's face it, there are a ton of other RTS games out there... What I liked about the SE series is the fact that it still was a turn-based game. Very few these days, and none anywhere near as mod-able or good.
In fact, I was so concerned, I e-mailed support at Shrapnel, and Aaron himself e-mailed me back with a line asking "What's wrong with RTS?" So, I told him.

Hoping this game and series doesn't fly the way of MOO.
From what I see it looks good, and seems as deep, with the controls needed to be a TBG-hybrid. I'll wait until I see some solid reviews from those who like TBG's before buying...
-ZtG

[Suicide Junkie]

SE5 is in no way a RTS.

Think of it as combat being processed one turn per millisecond, and direct fire weapons now take multiple turns to reach their targets.
If you choose single player, sequential turn, AND tactical combat, then you provide/update your orders every 1000 combat "turns" or so.

In any other case, the computer is calling the shots according to your given strategies, and everybody is happy.

[marc420]

Suicide Junkie said:
SE5 is in no way a RTS.

Think of it as combat being processed one turn per millisecond, and direct fire weapons now take multiple turns to reach their targets.
If you choose single player, sequential turn, AND tactical combat, then you provide/update your orders every 1000 combat "turns" or so.

In any other case, the computer is calling the shots according to your given strategies, and everybody is happy.

I just hope he gets it right. I've seen games where you give orders, then the AI's resolve it .... turn out really, really bad before. Nothing like cursing a really stupid UI and you don't have any options.

In general, I just hope that all the push towards fancy 3D and neat looking ships and RT combat don't take away from what I want in a strategy game. I want two things from combat in a strategy game. I want it to fit well with the rest of the strategy in the game, ie I want it to reflect and respond to the strategic choices in the game in a nice balanced way. I want it to support startegic choices, instead of driving everyone to one perfect weapon. And the second thing I want is reports/feedback from the combat that tells me what I need to know to make strategic choices in my turn. So if my fleet died because there wasn't enough Point Defense in the fleet, I want to know it. I don't want to be guessing about what happened or squinting at a screen trying to figure it out.

I don't care what the ships look like, and generally think the phrase "real-time" is the root of all evil.

[Fyron]

Please refer to Kwok's post:

Captain Kwok said:
There are many excellent options available for the real-time tactical combat, including the ability to pause every X seconds to issue orders to your ships if you want - this can be used to easily recreate turn-based combat except all ships would execute their orders at the same time during the interval.