Improving Mine tech concept

[Hunpecked]

Re: Mines as missiles or one-shot beams.

Correct, a "mine" in SE IV would have to be something like that to have any hope of damaging even something as "big" as a multi-megaton vessel. Now consider the distance over which the "mine" would have to act:

Assume a solar system with diameter 39 HAU (HAU is a "Hunpecked Astronomical Unit" equal to 100 million miles); this is about the orbit of Uranus in the Sol system. SE IV displays a star system on a 13x13 grid, so each side of each square is 3 HAU.

Assuming movement is limited to a distance 1.5 HAU "above" and "below" the mean plane of the planetary orbits, a ship/fleet would traverse a series of "space cubes" 3 HAU thick by 3 HAU long and 3 HAU wide. Now divide each cube into 100 columns (10x10) with a square cross-section (mines are limited to 100 per cube, so each column must have a mine to guarantee one "hit" on a ship passing down the column). A column is 0.3 HAU on a side, with a center-to-edge distance of 0.15 HAU or 15 million miles; this is the mine's minimum radius of action. Actually, the columns should be circular in cross-section, which means a mine's target radius would have to increase to overlap its neighbor's.

Of course in SE IV a fleet always hits a minefield, no matter how sparse, and it hits every mine until either the ships or the mines are gone. This means a mine's radius of action is at least half a cube side, or 150 million miles (in this example, anyway).

However, this doesn't translate to the battle map, where a mine would immediately "hit" an enemy ship (with better-than-Talisman accuracy) when dropped. Thus SE IV contradicts itself, which isn't surprising when one tries to make the terrestrial "mine" concept work in space (which is REALLY REALLY big).

In reality, the space analogue of a terrestrial mine is a ship.

[Suicide Junkie]

The combat map uses a totally different time scale.
And these are very much not like terrestrial mines.

Plus it is all abstracted.

Mines could perhaps be made to work like in SF. You'd probably be happier, and I suspect most people would be happier except when defending with mines
...Ships flying around in combat, getting hit by mines as they launch missiles and blast away with DUCs. Could be quite nifty. Maybe for SE 5 or 6

[Hunpecked]

Suicide Junkie writes:

"The combat map uses a totally different time scale."

Yes, a scale that nevertheless allows for mines to be launched, detonated, and swept.

"And these are very much not like terrestrial mines."

Amen.

"Plus it is all abstracted."

No argument there. It's just that the abstraction is wrong.

Phoenix-D writes:

"Given that the mines are 10 KILOTONS in size..that's not entirely unreasonable." [range of 150 million miles]

OK. I scatter my mines along the orbit of Mars and I've covered all 4 of Sol's inner planets plus most of the asteroids. In battle, my 10 kt mines greatly outrange my 60 kt heavy ship mount APBs, and they NEVER miss (despite lacking the 10 kt Combat Sensors my primitive ships require to hit at long range). Plus, as tesco samoa points out, my undetectable mines can "see" and hit cloaked ships before the rest of my forces have the tech to even detect them.

As I implied in my earlier post, such contradictions are reduced (but not eliminated) if mine effectiveness is limited ONLY to choke points. In fact, some day when I have more experience with Space Empires I may try creating a mod with NO mines; besides increasing "realism" it should help the AIs against human players.

[Suicide Junkie]

The main thing is not to get too wrapped up in "How does it work".
The only important thing is "How does it play".

Stock mines are fairly sucky.
Leaky minefields are fun

[Phoenix-D]

"This means a mine's radius of action is at least half a cube side, or 150 million miles (in this example, anyway)."

Given that the mines are 10 KILOTONS in size..that's not entirely unreasonable.

Of course its all quite abstracted. I can imagine a SE623622565616 where everything is simulated in total detail.

I can also imagine that requring more computer power than exists on the planet today to compete the movement of one ship.