I can't seem get Vanheim to work. Need some help.

[WraithLord]

Boron said:
Problems with Vanheim though:
...
-Vans are quite expensive, so a dualbless is prohibiting expensive. So Vans are only the 2nd-best blessable troop.
Place 1 goes to the jaguar warrior.

I didn't get your meaning on that one.
Why do you think Jag war. the best blessable?

[Boron]

izaqyos said:

I didn't get your meaning on that one.
Why do you think Jag war. the best blessable?

Because they are cheap. So you can afford a dualbless and still build a couple of them.
And Mictlan has holy4 priests, another advantage.

With Zen's Scale mod it is imho nearly impossible for Vanheim to do a dualbless but Mictlan can do it because the jaguars are cheaper.
3,5 Jaguars per Van Cost+Upkeepwise.

And 3,5 Jaguars normally beat one Van also. 1 vs 1 the Van would win but 3,5 vs. 1 the Jaguars win probably

[FrankTrollman]

I actually think the best Sacred Troops are Marignon's Flagellants. Back those guys up with Fire 9/ Astral 9 as the big giant head, and your scales can actuall be vaguely OK while you pump out vast armies of blessable crap from every castle.

They are made of paper mache, but each one gets Twist Fate, which means that as a whole they stay around for quite a while, and with two attacks each delivering flame blades - they go through ethereal or corporeal troops like a hot knife through butter.

Nonetheless, I'm not much impressed by any sacred troops. Flagellants are great against other nations, where you expect to take losses; but they really suck against independents, where the goal is no losses. A group of Flags will come in, take some losses, and kill way more than their cost against just about everything. Which makes them completely the suck when compared to Marignon Crossbows, who will happily kill most indep forces without taking a scratch.

The only time being sacred is really awesome is when your national mages are sacred (allowing you to put a Water 9 blessing or any Earth Blessing), as that allows you to lay down more spells in combat. Sacred Mages is a big deal, Sacred Troops is a stupid pet trick.

The powerful blessings are not worth their cost when applied to guys with swords. No matter how awesome (vans) or cheap (flagellants) those guys are.

-Frank

[quantum_mechani]

FrankTrollman said:
Sacred Troops is a stupid pet trick.

eh.... say that to an army of f9 w9 blessed vans knocking at your capital on turn 10

Even more modest blesses can be well worth it, C'tis serpent dancers for instance with f4 w4 a4 are very cost effective compared to most troops.

[Turin]

or hydras with earth 9 nature 9,

or ice devils with a shroud of the battle saint and water9 nature 9,

or jotuns with earth9 nature 9, the hirdman becomes pretty awesome and you can recruit them en masse with resource cost 11.
Jotunjarls become super cheap thugs, just give them a hell sword lucky pendant,quickness armor +5 attack ring and winged boots and they can take down pretty much every SC/Thug for the price of 15 blood/20 gems 130 gold.
One of mine won against an emberwilding heliophagus.

generally you´re right the game is dominated by mages and bless strategies aren´t costeffective, but if you think astral/fire9 flagellants are the best blessings, you need to play around a bit more with other sacred troops.

[quantum_mechani]

Turin said:
or hydras with earth 9 nature 9,

Sorry, but I've tested this a lot, and they suck no matter what the bless.

[Turin]

quantum_mechani said:

Sorry, but I've tested this a lot, and they suck no matter what the bless.

well they suck vs magic, but normal troops have a very hard time beating them. I used them in one rush game(hard research and 9 provinces) and they walked over pretty much everything in the beginning. In the end most of my hydras had 3 stars and one or two survived long enough to have 4.

very high protection+regeneration+reinvigoration+poison cloud is pretty deadly.

[HotNifeThruButr]

Ah. Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I'd really prefer to not have to use ultra-blessed Vans or mini-supercombatant Vanherse, since they kinda take the fun out of the game for me. Is that the only way to win as Vanheim?

[ioticus]

Don't you have to take really crappy scales to afford F9 W9 or some such?

[Cainehill]

HotNifeThruButr said:
Ah. Thanks for all the suggestions, folks. I'd really prefer to not have to use ultra-blessed Vans or mini-supercombatant Vanherse, since they kinda take the fun out of the game for me. Is that the only way to win as Vanheim?

Well - if you're playing against good human players, then you can't really afford to give up two of the most potent arrows in your quiver. Even with a heavily modded game ( to reduce magic, magic items, mages, etc ) Vanherses and Hangadrotts can be crucial, especially since there won't be as many summoned SCs and whatnot.

Now, you don't need the "ultra-blessing", but a moderate (even just water 4-6 for more defense) blessing is going to help those Vans quite a bit. You can try going with non-sacreds, but.... Vanheim is one of the only nations with good blessables that can be recruited away from homes. Most others are capitol only, making it difficult to amass that many or get them to the front lines.