Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

[Alneyan]

Changes to the cost of items:

- The Elixir of Life requires Nature 2 and Fire 2 (was Nature 3 and Fire 3)
- The Staff of Storms require Air 4 and Construction 6 (was Air 3 and Construction 4)
- The Frost Brand requires Water 1 and Earth 1 (was Water 1)
- The Serpent Kryss requires Nature 2 (was Nature 1)
- The Wraith Sword requires Death 3 (was Death 2)
- The Hell Sword requires Blood 4 and Fire 2 (was Blood 2)
- The Woundflame requires Death 3 (was Death 4)
- The Horned Helmet requires Nature 2 (was Nature 1)
- The Shambler Skin Armor requires Water 2 (was Water 1)
- The Hydra Skin Armor requires Nature 3 (was Nature 2)
- The Winged Shoes require Air 2 (was Air 1)
- The Clam of Pearls requires Water 2 and Astral 2 (was Water 2)
- The Fever Fetish requires Fire 2 and Nature 2 (was Fire 1 and Nature 1)
- The Blood Stone requires Blood 4 and Earth 1 (was Blood 3 and Earth 1)
- The Soul Contract requires Blood 5 and Fire 3 (was Blood 5)
- The Champion's Skull requires Death 1 (was Death 2)
- The Water Bracelet requires Water 2 (was Water 1)
- The Spell Focus requires Astral 2 (was Astral 1)
- The Lucky Coin requires Astral 2 (was Astral 1)
- The Lightning Spear requires Air 1 and Earth 1 (was Air 1)
- The Star of Heroes requires Earth 1 and Water 1 (was Earth 1)
- The Snake Bladder Stick requires Nature 2 (was Nature 1)
- The Rat Tail requires Nature 1 and Death 1 (was Nature 2)
- The Star of Thraldom requires Air 1 and Water 1 (was Air 1)
- The Demon Whip requires Fire 2 (was Fire 1 and Blood 1)
- The Standard of the Damned requires Death 3 and Astral 2 (was Death 3)
- The Ice Pebble Staff requires Water 2 (was Water 3)
- The Bow of War requires Air 1 and Fire 1 (was Air 1)

All the other changes affect the stats of various items, and repeating those here would probably not help much.

[Alneyan]

Bugs and typoes:
- It's instead of its (that is, when the possessive form is needed, and not the shortened form of it is), in the Pretenders mod and in the description of all the mods.
- The description of the Items mod is the one from the Scales mod.

- Elixir of Life is spelt Elixer of Life
- Horned Helm is used instead of Horned Helmet
- Rat Tail Whip is used instead of Rat Tail

[RibbonBlue]

I=Noob but..
Why did you nerf Water Braclet? It is not like water magic in general or the braclet its self is overpowered. I think(unless you improved water magic else where)that you should keep Water braclet water one so that nations with one water can forge it easily.
I think bloodstone should be blood 3 earth 2/3.
And also, I very much disagree with forst brand water 1 earth 1, because rather then fixing it, you just make it harder to get and make getting it rely on luck or getting a water 1 earth 1 mage.

[Alneyan]

The Frost Brand (along with other weapons) has also been given an aoe of 1, so it should be stronger now than before; that alone probably warrants the cost increase, but I am no expert on weaponry.

One reason for raising the cost of the Water Bracelet might be to make it harder for non-water nations: as it stands now, any nation with random mages can reach Water 2 fairly easy, and that level gives access to some of the best stuff in Water (Boots of Quickness and Clams in particular). With the Bracelet requiring Water 2, those nations will need to get to Water 2 via other means to begin with.

[CUnknown]

"Lifedrain weapons may still be useful in very unusual cases (your ice devil or tartarian with heroic ability: increased strength), but for the vast majority of cases, they are completely worthless. Hell swords especially: 40 blood slaves and 10 fire gems for a -10 damage weapon? What was Zen smoking?

And even in those unusual cases, I'd bet that a standard sword of sharpness might still be the better choice given the cost difference. Basically Zen made lifedraining weapons the absolute worst weapons in the game. If he hated them so much, why not just get rid of them completely?

I think a more reasonable change, such as increasing the cost to 20 death gems/blood slaves and/or reducing the damage to 4-5 instead of 9 would have been the way to go. Zen's choice was far too extreme..."
-------------------------------------------------------

This is what I posted in Boron's Faerun game. I like your other mods, Zen, but not this one. Why not try small steps first before making such drastic changes?

[Dimaz]

I think if you make water bracelet Water 2, you should also change helm which gives +1 Fire to Fire 2. Or leave both intact. Symmetry is good, but I don't think that Water 1 bracelet crashes the balance...

[Alneyan]

PDF => The Blood Thorn has kept the same cost, but the stats of the weapon itself were slightly nerfed. It became a 0 damage no strength added weapon... in other words, it isn't a weapon any longer.

Dimaz => I am not sure if my explanation is the reason why Zen made the change. I am not arguing for or against the change though, but merely explaining a possible rationale for it. The Fire Helmet is a bit different however, as it requires Fire 1 and Death 1, and not Fire 1 alone, so it is harder to raise Fire than Water.

CUnknown => Another problem with the current lifedraining weapons is that they will have a very tough time doing any real damage, as protections around 30 can be obtained without too much difficulty. To overcome a protection of 30, you will need a creature with a strength of 40 (before the 2d6oe dice kick in), and those aren't exactly the most common thing in the game.

I know I would much rather go the Gatebreaker way, a mighty weapon dealing 29 armour-negating damage and adding strength. That thing can kill in a single blow, and its cost is more or less on par with the new lifestealing weapons, and it helps a lot in sieges. The Soul Vortex body armour is likely a much better choice too, but only of use when facing a horde of units (where other choices are available).

[Chazar]

EDIT:This post has become obsolete. It was based on a misunderstanding of mine

Alneyan said:
The Blood Thorn [...] became a 0 damage no strength added weapon... in other words, it isn't a weapon any longer.

What is the reasoning behind 0 damage? I think it is quite clever to prevent strength from being added to the damage of a lifedrain weapon, but where is the problem with some base damage for the blood thorn? How could, e.g. a 1-damage no strength life draining weapon be abused? I can hardly imagine that a quickened Nataraja with 4 of those modified blood thorns would be any remote choice. So having some minor damage score might yield more choice for players...

Or is the drained fatigue independent from the damage score?

(How about turning the blood thorn into throwing knife (ammo:1, range str, damage 10,...) to explain the lack of strength? Is that possible mod-wise?)