More Tien Chi !

[TheSelfishGene]

Tien Chi vanilla can do alright in the early game if you can stomach taking some Productivity scales. Like Arco or Pythium they need time to build an effective standard army, and time is (it seems) the commodity in shortest supply in Dom2. A Crossbow front screened by Imperial Spearmen does quite well against basically everything - Composite Bowmen only work better against Barbs and Blowpipe provinces. If you can throw in some of their great cheap cavalry as a flanking force. Build the cheaper Pikemen if your expecting a Knight province to soak up the lances (although militia, if available, work even better obviously).

I like to take a Dragon with Tien Chi, as its somewhat thematic and gives you a way to knock out Indies reliably in the early game as well as be able to cast the occasional global, and not too expensive; and Tien Chi are the only other nation that has a chance of getting a healer naturally so you need not lose the casting ability of the Dragon permanently to bad luck. Natas are better overall but take longer (imo) to get up to speed. Fire Dragons can be taking Indies from the moment they research Fire Shield.

[RibbonBlue]

One thing I dislike about tien chi, is there magic is erratic, there is no obivus path to research.
With races like abysia,atlantis,ryleh,pyth,caelum,man,pan... and many other races you know what type of magic to get at the start of the game.

[PDF]

RibbonBlue said:
One thing I dislike about tien chi, is there magic is erratic, there is no obivus path to research.
With races like abysia,atlantis,ryleh,pyth,caelum,man,pan... and many other races you know what type of magic to get at the start of the game.

That's not necessarily a real issue : for example Arco is also "erratic". But *all* Arco mages are rather good, whereas *all* base TC mages aren't : they're weak in all paths...
OTOH standard TC human troops are not that bad - not worst than Marignon's .. except TC has no sacred troops ! Always subpar ...
In the only PBEM I've played with TC (BK !) early expansion was rather standard : however after that I clashed with Caelum, who annihilated by cavalry armies quite easily with his Seraphs, and my mages were pretty useless. And it was on hard research, limiting my disadvantages !!

[Truper]

RibbonBlue said:
One thing I dislike about tien chi, is there magic is erratic, there is no obivus path to research.
With races like abysia,atlantis,ryleh,pyth,caelum,man,pan... and many other races you know what type of magic to get at the start of the game.

You could call it erratic, or you could call it... flexible! For myself, I prefer to start with evocation, for all those amusing spells like Sulphur Haze that no one else can cast.

[RibbonBlue]

With arco though, you know you can start with thaum magic, and cast paralyze, while if you are playing tien chi you do not know that.

[Endoperez]

However, with Tien Chi your Celestial Master can cast Acid Bolt after Evocation 3, one level lower than Paralyze, and of school that offers Master with lucky randoms the spells they need to excel. That mightn't be as much as the elemental excellensy of Arcos, but that is something.

Which magic would suit them better, in your opinion? If I did a small mod, what should I change? Celestial Master to FAEWW? with no Astral, cabable of casting (automatically) Magma Bolts, Iron/Steel skin, cabable of getting E2 -> Earth Boots -> Dwarven Hammer? He would lose his Magic Duel suspectibility, but also the option of casting Power of the Spheres. What about making Master of the Way to S? instead of W?, giving Tien Chi lots of low-Astral fodder to use as Magic Duel bait and as communion slaves, instead?

Of course, I would change the starting spells too.

[Zooko]

I'm playing Tien Chi right now in a multiplayer game (two vs. two), and I'm really enjoying it. It's an interesting challenge. I don't want to say too much, since we've just had our first clash with the enemy and I'm afraid enemy scouts might have penetrated even into this thread.

[Zooko]

Well, I suppose the enemy has already noticed that I am playing the Spring and Autumn variant, and that my sacred troops get +4 protection, +4 reinvigoration, quickness, and +4 defense. And that Lu Tung-Pin the Immortal is my prophet.

So far it has been shown that a horde of Jaguar Warriors with Fire-9, Water-9 blessing are better than a horde of Flagellants with Earth-9, Water-9, especially if the Fire-9 Pretender throws fire darts at the Flagellants.

On the other hand, said Pretender took two nasty battle wounds from Tien Chi archers and Hoburg crossbowmen -- Chest Wound and Never Healing Wound...

[Bummer_Duck]

Endoperez said:
Which magic would suit them better, in your opinion? If I did a small mod, what should I change? Celestial Master to FAEWW? with no Astral, cabable of casting (automatically) Magma Bolts, Iron/Steel skin, cabable of getting E2 -> Earth Boots -> Dwarven Hammer?

That wouldn't be bad... With a master/slave items and Earth boots, you could at least cast Blade wind. However, I'm not sure how valuable this would be for early expansion. The real issue I have is with SA. I love the concept of diversified mages and early gem income, but if you can't take any provinces you lose badly. I Can't figure out a good way to expand with the national troops SA gets. It was either poorly thought out, or I am doing something wrong. I think SA should have Cheap Crossbowman, or Longbowman.

Maybe some could suggest a different strategy? So far, I have been unable to expand very fast. I can't afford enough HI, even though the guide by Zen says you should buy a couple a turn. I have better luck with archers combined with a combat pretender attacking after turn 5 (researhing to Alt 3). I have been using a Jade Emp, that casts Quickness, Ethereal, Mistform, and Luck (Astral Shield and Astral weapon later on). However, without at least 30 Archers, the pretender seems to die... Running against HI/HC is pure suicide, as the archers do nothing other than die badly along side the Pretender. So, if this nation starts in a rich neighborhood, I lose every time. Wah!

He would lose his Magic Duel suspectibility, but also the option of casting Power of the Spheres. What about making Master of the Way to S? instead of W?, giving Tien Chi lots of low-Astral fodder to use as Magic Duel bait and as communion slaves, instead?

Now that is a truly good idea!

I have never tried it, but can you give a Crystal Matrix thing to one mage, and cast Communion Slave on the others? Can you mix and match the various communion/slave items and spells? How about the blood variety?

Of course, I would change the starting spells too.

Maybe something useful for taking provinces?

[Ironhawk]

One tactic I had some fun with as TC was with Wands of Acid or whatever they are called. You get one of your Celestial Masters, give him a hammer and just bang them out. Then you recruit Masters of the Way and hand them a wand when they walk out of the recruitment office. Script them to quickness/acidboltx5.

On a side note aboug TC magic, I usually go straight up Evoc. Acid Bolt/Acid Rain are a little lower level than thier counterparts and just as (and sometimes more) effective.