More Tien Chi !

[Truper]

RibbonBlue said:
One thing I dislike about tien chi, is there magic is erratic, there is no obivus path to research.
With races like abysia,atlantis,ryleh,pyth,caelum,man,pan... and many other races you know what type of magic to get at the start of the game.

You could call it erratic, or you could call it... flexible! For myself, I prefer to start with evocation, for all those amusing spells like Sulphur Haze that no one else can cast.

[RibbonBlue]

With arco though, you know you can start with thaum magic, and cast paralyze, while if you are playing tien chi you do not know that.

[Endoperez]

However, with Tien Chi your Celestial Master can cast Acid Bolt after Evocation 3, one level lower than Paralyze, and of school that offers Master with lucky randoms the spells they need to excel. That mightn't be as much as the elemental excellensy of Arcos, but that is something.

Which magic would suit them better, in your opinion? If I did a small mod, what should I change? Celestial Master to FAEWW? with no Astral, cabable of casting (automatically) Magma Bolts, Iron/Steel skin, cabable of getting E2 -> Earth Boots -> Dwarven Hammer? He would lose his Magic Duel suspectibility, but also the option of casting Power of the Spheres. What about making Master of the Way to S? instead of W?, giving Tien Chi lots of low-Astral fodder to use as Magic Duel bait and as communion slaves, instead?

Of course, I would change the starting spells too.

[Zooko]

I'm playing Tien Chi right now in a multiplayer game (two vs. two), and I'm really enjoying it. It's an interesting challenge. I don't want to say too much, since we've just had our first clash with the enemy and I'm afraid enemy scouts might have penetrated even into this thread.

[Zooko]

Well, I suppose the enemy has already noticed that I am playing the Spring and Autumn variant, and that my sacred troops get +4 protection, +4 reinvigoration, quickness, and +4 defense. And that Lu Tung-Pin the Immortal is my prophet.

So far it has been shown that a horde of Jaguar Warriors with Fire-9, Water-9 blessing are better than a horde of Flagellants with Earth-9, Water-9, especially if the Fire-9 Pretender throws fire darts at the Flagellants.

On the other hand, said Pretender took two nasty battle wounds from Tien Chi archers and Hoburg crossbowmen -- Chest Wound and Never Healing Wound...

[RibbonBlue]

Ouch

[RibbonBlue]

I feel like Tien Chi S+A is a really powerful race. And that it has some undiscovereved tactic that no one knows, but this tactic makes it better in equal hands then any other nation.

[Bummer_Duck]

Endoperez said:
Which magic would suit them better, in your opinion? If I did a small mod, what should I change? Celestial Master to FAEWW? with no Astral, cabable of casting (automatically) Magma Bolts, Iron/Steel skin, cabable of getting E2 -> Earth Boots -> Dwarven Hammer?

That wouldn't be bad... With a master/slave items and Earth boots, you could at least cast Blade wind. However, I'm not sure how valuable this would be for early expansion. The real issue I have is with SA. I love the concept of diversified mages and early gem income, but if you can't take any provinces you lose badly. I Can't figure out a good way to expand with the national troops SA gets. It was either poorly thought out, or I am doing something wrong. I think SA should have Cheap Crossbowman, or Longbowman.

Maybe some could suggest a different strategy? So far, I have been unable to expand very fast. I can't afford enough HI, even though the guide by Zen says you should buy a couple a turn. I have better luck with archers combined with a combat pretender attacking after turn 5 (researhing to Alt 3). I have been using a Jade Emp, that casts Quickness, Ethereal, Mistform, and Luck (Astral Shield and Astral weapon later on). However, without at least 30 Archers, the pretender seems to die... Running against HI/HC is pure suicide, as the archers do nothing other than die badly along side the Pretender. So, if this nation starts in a rich neighborhood, I lose every time. Wah!

He would lose his Magic Duel suspectibility, but also the option of casting Power of the Spheres. What about making Master of the Way to S? instead of W?, giving Tien Chi lots of low-Astral fodder to use as Magic Duel bait and as communion slaves, instead?

Now that is a truly good idea!

I have never tried it, but can you give a Crystal Matrix thing to one mage, and cast Communion Slave on the others? Can you mix and match the various communion/slave items and spells? How about the blood variety?

Of course, I would change the starting spells too.

Maybe something useful for taking provinces?

[Ironhawk]

One tactic I had some fun with as TC was with Wands of Acid or whatever they are called. You get one of your Celestial Masters, give him a hammer and just bang them out. Then you recruit Masters of the Way and hand them a wand when they walk out of the recruitment office. Script them to quickness/acidboltx5.

On a side note aboug TC magic, I usually go straight up Evoc. Acid Bolt/Acid Rain are a little lower level than thier counterparts and just as (and sometimes more) effective.

[Endoperez]

Bummer_Duck said:

That wouldn't be bad... With a master/slave items and Earth boots, you could at least cast Blade wind. However, I'm not sure how valuable this would be for early expansion. The real issue I have is with SA. I love the concept of diversified mages and early gem income, but if you can't take any provinces you lose badly. I Can't figure out a good way to expand with the national troops SA gets. It was either poorly thought out, or I am doing something wrong. I think SA should have Cheap Crossbowman, or Longbowman.

Okay, I think I can change Tien Chi units around so that one of those shared by both base and S&A will be the cheap crossbow, and S&A loses access to different unit. I can probably do it without affecting Barbarian Kings, but I don't think that would a big problem with a mod anyway.

Now that is a truly good idea!

I have never tried it, but can you give a Crystal Matrix thing to one mage, and cast Communion Slave on the others? Can you mix and match the various communion/slave items and spells? How about the blood variety?

As I understand, all of them work with each other.
I will probably do this or change/give them sorcery random.

Maybe something useful for taking provinces?

I meant the summoning spells. Currently they need Astral, which is the Celestial magic even though no one in Tien Chi seems to be very good in its use.

Besides, before I finish my dream project, it won't be possible to add starting spells without removing it from the research list.

I am thinking of giving the Master of the Way $ (sorcery random) instead of sraight S. If I incorporated the changes of Sabbath Mod(Sabbath Master/Slave fatique cost down, so no slave needed) or if this mod was to be used with one of the mods changing that (mainly Zen's spell mod, if it does this), half of the Masters would be communable. I don't think water/sorcery would be very useful, so I would have to change that pick, too. Maybe # and $ randoms (elemental and sorcery, as with S&A Celestial Masters). If I were to go with S? route, Celestial Masters would get better with Astral.

What would be useful, but not overpowering magic for Celestial Masters? I'm thinking of taking away some regular magic of CM and giving them #$ randoms (base) or #$? (S&A). This would give them very nice random power. Is Air important for base Tien Chi, thematically or gameplay-wise? I am thinking of WWEF#$ base (Acid, Magma, Rust, ) and WWAF#$? for S&A (Acid and lots of general power for CM, possibility for Air 3, changing E to A to keep Mot5E only sure Magma Bolters). I would probably calculate the cost following one of the Universal Dominions Unit Pricing Theories the scientific minds threw around here some time ago.

I would like to get this playtested after I put this together. Any #dominions regulars in here? Would you care to Blitz with possibly unbalanced Tien Chi? Should I make a poll out of this to get opinion of more forumites?