Strategic combat has more bugs than my backyard!

[igoblin]

Yes I agree that more work still needs to be done for strategic combat but It has come a long way since Version 1.02.

I recently tested ship capture and planet capture and the AI works better than I expected. It will hold back the troop transports when capturing a planet until the escorts have been wiped out or all the planetary defenses have been eliminated. Also satellites are now placed next to the planet so they actually help in defense. (before if I remember correctly the satellites would be placed on the map in the corner where they wouldn't help at all.

The change fleets button in the simulator is a newly added feature and as far as I can tell it's not fully implemented yet. I haven't had the experience of ships acting differently in strategic vs. tactical combat other than the random factor involved with to-hit chances.

A couple more possible bugs I would to add (though I may just not have my ship strategies set up correctly for what I want them to do):
Multiplex tracking doesn't seem to work, at least not on a starbase. I had the largest starbase armed with ten Heavy mounted AntiProton Beams attacked by ten Cruiser with Anti-Proton Beams and Shield Depleters. The starbase would only fire three of its APBs a turn, usually enough to destroy one cruiser and then not fire any of its remaining shots even though it had Multi-plex tracking 5. Has anyone else noticed this?

Also when I pitted a boarding ship against a starbase, the boarding ship ran to the corner and didn't attack the starbase. I had shield depleters on the boarding ship so I would assume it would follow the secondary strategy of Optimal Firing Range when the base still had shields up but it seemed to use Don't Get Hurt instead. Is it possible the AI knows that the shield depleters would never get through the shields fast enough?

[Puke]

I think the simulator has more bugs than actual strategic combat does. I have not had problems with fleets obeying orders in strategic combat, its just that fleet orders always override individual ship orders. heck, the simulator cant even model orbital defenses, it sticks them on the other side of the map.

If you are trying to mount a complex planetary assault, sometimes it is best to bring the fleets in with orders to sit outside range and only fire on fighters or ships with weapons. then once you are in orbit, break up the fleet so that ships that need specific orders can do their own thing (ie: your ships with nothing but armor and PD can charge the planet and soak up fire, missile ships can sit at max range and unload, capital weapon ships can be ordered to target defense bases first, then fire on the planet if it has any weapons left, and your troop transport can lumber in for the big landing)

what would be *nice* (like not-gonna-happen nice, but maybe in se5) is if the simulator let you simulate an entire system. you could place defenses (including mines) at a planet, and actually simulate a few turns in that system, giving orders to both sides. that would let you model acceptable losses for your fleet plowing through a minefield, and destroying a smaller colony on the way to the main objective. you could simulate your ships ariving on the scene having already sustained the damage that you would reasonably expect them to have taken.

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"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)

[geoschmo]

Strategic combat is never going to give you the fine tuned control that you are looking for. What you need to do instead of trying to figure out a way to manipulate it like that, is to learn the system and adjust your strategy accordingly.

With strategic combat you don't get to be Sergant Rock storming the bunkers, or even General Patton leading from the front. You are General Eisenhower, or maybe even President Roosevelt. Developing an overall strategy, building and amassing the fleet, setting the objective, and then sitting back and praying the troops manage to take the beachhead.

You are always trying to figure out the least number of troops and ships it will take to conquer the planet. That's the wrong way to think about this. You need to factor in some chance, and mistakes, and build a fleet and landing force large enough to account for that. You want to pick your enemies weakest point, and exploit it with your strongest force possible. Overwhelming force if possible.

Think of it those terms and you start to see the beauty and realism of this system. Get hung up on the nuts and bolt and you will go crazy.

Instead of "What's the minimum amount of ships I need to take this planet?" think "How many ships can I spare from other areas to conquer this planet with the least amount of tactical manipulation?" It's the big picture man. You gotta get the BIG picture.


Geoschmo

[Lemmy]

the movement isn't always correctly calculated either, i was once testing a design, which had 6 orange engines (forgot the name, +1 bonus) and a solar sail III, that is 5 combat movement, on occasion after changing the weapons, i got 6 movement instead of 5.

[CW]

quote:

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With strategic combat you don't get to be Sergant Rock storming the bunkers, or even General Patton leading from the front. You are General Eisenhower, or maybe even President Roosevelt

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I've never seen them charging at 6 heavy WPs and 13 armed sats with 3 BCs armed with nothing but allegiance subverters and an APB when they were specifically told NOT to.

Seriously the problem has nothing to do with being able to fine-tune the battle to the extreme, it is the unpredictable behaviour in strategic combat that is causing me headaches. I hate seeing my ships ignore my orders, and I have seen them ignore both fleet and individual orders. Sometimes they even behave differently in different rounds of strategic combat in the simulator.

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You are always trying to figure out the least number of troops and ships it will take to conquer the planet

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First of all, that is what you are SUPPOSED to be thinking if you are fighting a war!

It is almost turn 50 in the game and I have more than enough forces to take on an AI homeworld. However I have discovered that sometimes having more ships only means you take more losses WITHOUT improving the results, thanks to the AI who loves to charge blindly at planets. I can never accept unnecessary losses.

As a side note, who says the troop ship would always stay away until the planetary defenses are down? I have already lost one for real when it charged at the planet while the escorting DNs ran for the corners. I have even seen that in the simulator multiple times. The odd thing is, as I have said, if you run the simulator again a second time they might behave totally differently!

[CW]

quote:

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Originally posted by LemmyM:
the movement isn't always correctly calculated either, i was once testing a design, which had 6 orange engines (forgot the name, +1 bonus) and a solar sail III, that is 5 combat movement, on occasion after changing the weapons, i got 6 movement instead of 5.

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That's because you chose populsion expert as your racial tech, all of your ships get an extra movement point.

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by CW:
First of all, that is what you are SUPPOSED to be thinking if you are fighting a war!

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no its not. you are supposed to be thinking about how many to send in to gaurantee either victory or to cause an acceptable ammount of damage to the other side. You are supposed to ballance it against your resource and production schedules. If you try and cut things too close to the minimum necessary force, you will end up loosing your entire force and not gaining anything in return. thats generally considerd a 'bad' way to fight a war.

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Originally posted by CW:
I have discovered that sometimes having more ships only means you take more losses WITHOUT improving the results, thanks to the AI who loves to charge blindly at planets. I can never accept unnecessary losses.

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as long as your ships are effective combat ships, i cant understand why you are having a problem. if the extra ships you are adding to the task force have formidable offensive and defensive capacity, even if they blindly charge the planet, they will speed the rate at which planetary defenses are destroyed. this necessarily means that the enemy will be able to dish out less damage, because his guns will be Online for a shorter period of time.

if you are seeing some sort of different behavior, perhaps you need to examine your targeting priorities, default strategies, and 'break formation' orders.

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Originally posted by CW:
As a side note, who says the troop ship would always stay away until the planetary defenses are down?

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nobody. thats why you send faster, armed ships infront of the transport to draw fire and soak up damage.


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"...the green, sticky spawn of the stars"
(with apologies to H.P.L.)