SPAA or SPAG ?

[Karnaaj]

Depends on the battle, as well; remember the points-ratios if it's an assault. Just did a meeting-engagement (USMC v. N. Korea, '97) with 1 Coy M1A1HMC, 1 Pl LAV-25 (ITOW, a couple choppers, a couple AOP Hummers, 5 Dragon teams and some 155s. NKs swarmed with at least 3-4 to 1 odds *numerically*, tank-heavy mix. (Think I was running 12.5k points.) Lots of cheap versus a few pricey things.

I'll note that AI arty was (apparently) map fire, and mostly targeted: 1) high ground, 2) v-hex locations, and 3) roads along route of march, and apparently expecting much slower rate-of-march. Unless I killed another observer team, the only one I saw had been pinned down under 155s and wasn't directing fire for most of the game. Enemy arty also got conterbatteried pretty hard. <G> What air attacks there were managed to accidentally kill a Seahawk (same hex as the targetted tank at the time) and a Dragon team (next hex past the target). Oh, and they scratched up my tanks something *awful*...

A horde isn't that dangerous unless they 1) can run you out of shots/ammo, 2) can close to effective range and 3) have effective weaponry. In 3.01, I was running a Sov invasion of Iran in '79/'80, and the huge numbers of M4s the computer bought were more of a strain to my ammo supply than a danger to my T-80s. (Don't think I even had an immobilisation from M4 fire on a tank before the campaign crashed. They did hit some of my BMPs and BRDMs, tho, but the BMPs killed more than got killed.)

[Nerfix]

There's a huge point diffrence between modern equipment and the older stuff, especially soviet equipment. And I think the computer gets the same buy points as you unless specified. This is why countries like NK or Libya can buy hordes of equipment which however is often really weak.

[Mobhack]

Nerfix said:
There's a huge point diffrence between modern equipment and the older stuff, especially soviet equipment. And I think the computer gets the same buy points as you unless specified. This is why countries like NK or Libya can buy hordes of equipment which however is often really weak.

The AI gets the same points as you now, unlike in the original SP2 where it got a bonus buy at the start of the pick for free, something like some artillery and a tank platoon as I recall, plus some free barge carriers in a river assault crossing too (that went out when we got the original code, immediately). There was also a rare AI special set-up in the meeting engagement where it started deployed to the 50% line as if in a delay, but with equal points. Removed.

The AI now has the exact same points to buy with as you, and no deployment "cheats". The only one of the latter is that the AI is allowed still to deploy a bit further forward than a human when assaulting in a river crossing, but defending against the AI in a river crossing is an exrecise in shooting fish in a barrel, anyway, so it needs help there!

Cheers
Andy

[BigJim]

The campagne I was in was US vs Iraq, as I said I will send a saved game for ya. Not sure which files I need to zip tho can you give me a clue.

If what you say about spotting is correct I must be doing something wrong, will test it further

[TheDesertFox]

BigJim said:
Not sure which files I need to zip tho can you give me a clue.

Andy or Don needs SpSv001.cmt and SpSv001.dat zipped up if you have saved to slot 01. If you used another slot you need the according *.cmt and *.dat files of that slot you saved to.

Singleplayer and unsecure PBEM saves you find here:
[WinSPMBT\Saved Games\]

Secure PBEM files you find here:
[WinSPMBT\PBEM Games\]

cheers

Helge

[DRG]

BigJim said:
The campagne I was in was US vs Iraq, as I said I will send a saved game for ya. Not sure which files I need to zip tho can you give me a clue.

If what you say about spotting is correct I must be doing something wrong, will test it further

Make a note which save slot you are in ( they are printed beside the slot ) then open up your SAVED GAMES folder and look for the two files Helge mentioned but with your slot number. There will be two. A DAT file and a .CMT file

Zip both of them up and attach to your next post

Keep in mind the AI buys by points the same as you do and although you may buy 7 1993 era M1A2's for approx 3100 points the Iraqi AI can buy 27 T-62m's for the same number of points. All tank costs are calculated with the same formula. The more capable it is the more it costs. I think you will agree a T-62m is no match for an M1A2 but 4 T-62's for every Abrams evens the odds ( a bit )

If you take the Iraqis then play the AI as the US you will not see it buy a horde of M1A2's becasue M1A2's cost about 435 points each and a T-62m is 112. ( and 7 M1A2's will have NO difficulty defeating 27 T-62's unless the T-62's are handled very skillfully

Don

[Listy]

A quick solve to the AI arty problem:

Buy a Regiment of MLRS, and dont use them. that solves the problem just fine...

Just out of intrest, what do you have your prefrences set to? Check those to make sure you haven't allocated the AI an advantage.

[KevinRanger95]

countries like Russia or the old iraq or Iran or India and so on, do they send their SPSAM's alone with their tanks and infantry? I noticed that toward the end on many battles, namely ones above, they would send their SP-SAM's to the final assault. One time in the mass confusion, I let a SP-SAM get through my lines, and he ended up behind me going for my hexes, glad he could not fire anything!

[PlasmaKrab]

Well, normally they tend to keep their SAMs some hexes from their map border, though in a final rush they may want to take tem along... Remember that many SP-SAM can't shoot on the move, and are pretty useless in that case

In real life, AFAIK the Soviet doctrine was one SPAA battery per armored/mechanized regiment (3/4 battalions); with mixed SAM and AAG (nominally 2 sections of 2 ZSU and 2 sections of 2 SA-9/-13). Guess they could (limitedly) despatch these, so I generally put 2 ZSU, sometimes +2 SAM per battalion in game. In mech/arm'd infantry battalions you also have a SAM platoon with 2 to 9 MANPADS teams in 2 to 3 BMPs or BTRs (same model as the main troops), plus in theory at least one spare MANPADS launcher in one BMP per company (that is featured in the game with SAM support sections or separate SAM teams with the cmp. HQ squad).
I don't know about the heavier mixed AA battalions that are said to come up in the late 80s, with 2S6, SA-15 and infantry SAMs pasted together. Probable they didn't manage to build many of these.

In the pre-ODS Iraqi army I think they used to deploy one ZSU platoon per mechanized task force (battalion-sized). Lok at the tutorial scenario for this, you'll have a fair portraying of Iraqi battalion organization.

[KevinRanger95]

I hardly ever play battalion size games, do they ever attach SPAA or SP-SAMs with platoon levels, or do these countries just stick with company- Battalion size units?