winMBT low percentile hits

[DRG]

nosrac said:
how about an "regular" egyptian squad droppin israeli paras at 400m b/c they moved 1 hex(50 m)!!!!!!
chickens with no heads i guess. movement penalty is too harsh and unrealistic. small arms fire= a bunch of snipers. too much emphasis on "kills" and not enough on supression.

Sometimes I REALLY wonder if I'm playing the same game as some of you people. The "movement penalty" is NOT "too harsh" and small arms fire does not equal "a bunch of snipers". If you move against an enemy force that is unsurpressed expect to take casualties if you are moving in the open in the desert. Surpression IS the key and if you don't do it expect casualties when moving in the open even if it is only one hex and your opponent is a ""regular" egyptian squad" What....?? a "regular" egyptian squad isn't supposed to be able to hit Isreali paras?

Don

[nosrac]

imho, at 400m in battlefield conditions. pretty tough. if a squad moves 1 hex and is truly tactical(tactical...using cover, keeping low...crawling???) at 400m even in open desert i find it hard to believe that at this distance anyone except a sniper could consistantly score kills(supression yes)
400m...4 football fields!!!long way!

btw...not to nitpick game. i absolutly love it. thanks for everything yall have done. truly remarkable.

[Arralen]

Uuuooh ... hitting someone ducking along in 400m with an AK-47 ?!
Do they use original Sowjet guns with scopes and match ammo?

"Universally accepted" effective range of the AK-47 is 300m !
( US Army Field Manual 100-2-3 - The Soviet Army; Troops Organisation and Equipment published in June 1991.)

[loktarr]

Maybe your Israelis were not hitten by the only AK-47, there are also support weapons in a squad...
And are PKM and other light machinguns firing at 300m only?
Poor Egyptians, if they don't have any support weapon in their squads...

[nosrac]

are you guys saying it is normal for ANY infantry squad(not just poor egypitans..blah..blah..) to score kills on tacticly moving infantry(small arms, 50m hex,9-10 men) at 300-400 meters???
machine gun,ak,m16,rpg.. whatever the hell weapon they choose. is that right?if that is the case fine with me. that is very impressive. effective range means what? supression,kills?so if im in a squad, creeping(cover) down a road some unsupressed 65 exp. squad can drop two men at 300-400m with a pk b/c i can't see him???????!!!!!!!i did not realize how accurate modern weapons were. i am not in the military and don't have battlefield exp so this is a definate learning cruve for me. thanks.
chuck

[loktarr]

That's not a problem of modern weapon or not, BTW during WW2, german MG-42 could fire at an aim at 800m (reported from a guy that was on eastern front)...

[Exel]

Given a situation where an infantry squad fires at another infantry squad 400 meters away with everything they've got (assault rifles as well as MGs), then I see nothing spectacular in them getting one or two kills. You certainly can't snipe with an AK to 400 meters, but if you get enough bullets in the area, some of them are bound to hit your target.

[Weasel]

Effective range for the C7 (M16 if you are American) is maximum 300 meters with the scope. Optimal range is 200 meters. Effective fire is "FIRE THAT WILL CAUSE CASUALTIES IF APPROPRIATE ACTION IS NOT TAKEN".

Since the AK is a looser built weapon and thus not as accurate, I would say it's maximum effective range is 200 meters, optimal 100 meters.

[loktarr]

Since the AK is a looser built weapon and thus not as accurate, I would say it's maximum effective range is 200 meters, optimal 100 meters.

MG-42 was also a looser built weapon and I never heard allied veterans saying it was not accurate...
In fact from some experiments (serious ones, I mean), the AK-47 is more accurate at great ranges because of the weight of the bullet (7,62mm), but it's not the same for the AK-74, as it is a 5,45mm bullet...