Do you carry?

[Mephisto]

I rather not see civilians armed. The German police is quick to respond while I can defend myself or third persons in the mean time without a gun. The fastest respond time for the police was 30 seconds, the longest around 6 to 8 minutes. Just my 0.02$.

[El_Phil]

I'm just reminded of the story from ages back. Deep in the darkest Cornwall there was my old uni's test mine. Well being a mining school they needed a test mine. Being a mine it had an explosive store. Obviously such a store had hefty walls and a hefty steel door, however this was felt not to be enough. So there was a silent alarm linked up to the local cop shop and from there to the armed response unit.

However, this store was in the middle of nowhere so the claimed response time of >5 minutes was rubbish, as various lightning storms proved. (The alarms were very sensitive, obviously given what they protected, and apart from the police the mine manager was also alerted. He timed a run once and it came out at around 15 minutes and he was still waiting for the police to arrive.)

Nothing much to do with topic I know, but it seemed relevant at the time

[Kamog]

No, I don't have a concealed weapons permit, and no I don't carry any weapons. I don't know anybody who carries a concealed weapon. I do know of a few people who own guns, but they don't carry it around with them. Some guys I know carry knives, but I don't carry anything.

[Gandalf Parker]

Actually, anyone trained in any weapons can tell you that a trained person will usually beat an untrained person. Even if the trained person has a stick and the untrained person has a gun. Of course untrained people usually will say that a gun will always beat a stick but reading news reports or watching real-life cops shows will show how often thats wrong. Few people who just grab a gun and shoot it end up hitting anything important even if the target is standing still. Often its some innocent bystander. And cops will tell you that a gun for protection gets works against the person more often than not.

Along that line.. I have never, since the age of 10, failed to go "armed". But its been something like a stick, or a heavy 4-inch iron washer off of a train, or a bicycle sprocket, or a dog leash (the chain kind). "Why no officer, that is not a shuriken. Thats a bicycle sprocket." "But it was just luck that I had that dog leash in my pocket."

Of course now that Im old I can post such things. In my younger days I was smart enough not to make a public record of the fact that I didnt just happen to have such things in my pocket.

Oh, and I have 4 expert shooting ribbons from the military in 4 different firearms. I still wouldnt carry.

Gandalf Parker

[Kamog]

Yes, I have been told something similar by someone who studied martial arts. At close range, a knife in the hands of a trained person is supposed to be much more dangerous than a gun.

[Atrocities]

This is not directed at any one. So please no hate mail.

To understand this debate you must really be an American. It has been an American right since the inception of the Constitution and one cannot expect a foreigner to understand what it means to us.

Trying to explain something such as the constitutional right keep and bear arms to a non-American is like trying to convince an American to use a commode when there is a perfectly good toilet next to it. It just doesn't work.

For us the right to keep and bare arms is as essential to our constitution as the 1st amendment. Without it, none of the amendments would mean anything because they could all be taken away at a whim.

Our definition of freedom is different from those out side the US and we often catch a lot of flak for it. But unless you are American the debate over the constitution holds no special meaning for you.

For the most part saying that our system is wrong because it does not conform to your system is nothing less than age-old political horse fodder. It is best to practice what you preach and not pass judgment on us for who we are. We have our ideals and you have yours. Let us leave it at that.

[douglas]

Atrocities said:
For us the right to keep and bare arms is as essential to our constitution as the 1st amendment.

Wait, you're saying the Bill of Rights guarantees my right to wear a short sleeve shirt?