good races for/against newbies.

[magnate]

Well, reinvigoration maybe, but quickness items are Construction 6, and as you say, research is poor. If you're bothering with an N9 bless it's probably worth taking W9 or E9 as well - E9 might be slightly more useful (though I'm not yet convinced of that) but W9 fits better with the theme's mages and gem income. W9N9 and casting Relief on your troops is probably how I'd try it.

[thejeff]

Doesn't the Neifel Jarl have water magic? That would be the early approach to quickness.

If you're using them as SC's you won't want to bring relief casters along, so E9 might be better.

Of course the real problem is with a double bless, your scales will be so bad you won't be able to afford any Neifel Jarls anyway.

[Kuritza_Dru]

Hand them Wraith swords and fatique problems are solved unless you're facing mass undead or constructs. And with a wrath crown or some empowerment they can also cast soul vortex. Not sure if it's worth the death gems though.

[magnate]

Yes the NJ has water magic, but can only cast quickness on himself, at least until Alteration 8. The W9 blessing gives all his accompanying troops quickness and +4 def.

Why not bring a Gygja along to cast relief? I don't understand why the role of the Jarl as an SC makes a difference to that. Unless you're assuming that SC Jarls would have no troops with them. Then yes, you just give them reinvig items. And no need for W9 bless I guess - but then level 9 blessings are pretty pointless on tiny numbers of SCs, they're more useful on large numbers of cheaper units (in this case Woodsmen). Plus you need units for sieges.

Ho hum.

[thejeff]

Taking on armies by themselves is pretty much the definition of an SC. If you bring an army, you have to make the army tough enough not to route before the SC kills everything or the SC will retreat even if they're winning. If the army is that tough, they'd probably win without the SC.

Unequipped NJs aren't quite in that class, but even with a little gear they're real close. The N9 bless helps mostly by keeping afflictions away.

Last time I tried Neifelheim, I think I started with a Gode and an army of Woodsmen and separately a NJ and my W9N9 Son of Neifel. With the blessing on the NJ and a few buffs, the two of them could handle most 9 str independents. (Quickness, Breath of Winter, Personal Regeneration, maybe something else I'm forgetting.)

Sieges and major battles against a nation's main forces, you may want more. Of course, by that time you should have enough construction and gems to outfit the SC properly.

[magnate]

Surely BoW does not stack with the NJ's intrinsic cold effect?

[thejeff]

It either stack with or replaces, I forget which. The spell is better though. Larger area at least.

[quantum_mechani]

magnate said:
Surely BoW does not stack with the NJ's intrinsic cold effect?

It does stack. Natural chill does fatigue damage only, BoW is actual damge. And back to the blesses, indeed it would only save 20% of the flags, but in low armour cases like that, I would rather have that then the +2 stregth. And anyway, for magic reasons I usually consider it a bit of a waste to pur blood on my pretender.

[magnate]

For a race with recruitable blood mages I'd be inclined to agree with you, but B4 on a pretender can be a great kick-start for a non-blood nation like Caelum or Arco.

I think I'd still rather have +2 strength on my weak sacreds (like flags or jaguar warriors) than 20% air shield, but I've not done extensive comparisons. It's reasonably easy to deal with archers in other ways, providing your scouting is good enough to anticipate meeting them. On bigger sacreds (vans, jotuns etc.) I'd definitely take the +2 str. I'm still not convinced about reinvigoration though - I'm currently playing as Vanheim and my vans/valks are not getting fatigue noticeably over 10 (ie. most fights last only 3-4 rounds).

Anyway, I wonder what the OP made of all this - did you stick with Neifelheim in the end, and if so with what pretender setup?

CC