OT: War Bill, write your congress......

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

---

Originally posted by capnq:

There has been a noticable return of reason in the mass media these Last few days.

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How is that even possible? I can't recall the mass media ever demonstrating any sense of reason about anything. It thrives on hype and hysteria.

Heh... everything is relative, Capnq. The media has resumed a level of dicsourse more rational than it had during the first week or so after the attack. But then, as I said, I don't watch TV anymore. For me it's NPR and websites. Once in a while I'll watch a cable channel like SciFi or Discovery/TLC but that's it.

[Dracus]

here is what the pakistan leader said translated to engish:


President General Pervez Musharraf addressed the nation at 20:30 PST (11:30
EST).

Asalam-o- Alaikum

I am here to talk about the episode of terrorism that we have all
witnessed in New York which involved 45 countries and people of all ages
were killed. These were capable Pakistanis
and I would like to convey my deep sympathy to their family
members.

America has 3 targets

Osama Bin Laden (Al-Quaida Movement)

Taliban

International terrorism


Now I shall share with you the kind of support that they expect
from us.

1.Intelligence - Information exchange

2.Use of Air Space

3.logistic Support


No operations plans are ready or available at the moment.

Their target from the beginning has been Osama bin Laden, and his
movement. Their second target is the Talibaan. This has been their demand
for many years - to bring Osama to trial.
Now they have also announced a war against terrorism.

We do not have any details from the U.S of the exact nature of the
support from us. But we do know that they have the support of the UN
Security Council. The UN resolution specifies
punishment for those committing terrorism. This has been supported
by all the Islamic countries.

We in Pakistan are facing a very critical situation. Perhaps as
critical as the events in 1971. If we make the wrong decisions our vital
interests will be harmed.

I have discussed all this with my corps commanders, politicians and
prominent Pakistanis. Tomorrow I am meeting the tribal chiefs. I have to say
that opinions are divided, but the vast
majority supports us. I would say that about 15% are tending
towards emotional reactions.

Lets look at our neighbors. They have promised US all cooperation.
They want to isolate us, get us declared a terrorist state.

They have met in Dushanbe with some other countries and plan to try
and install anti Pakistani government in Afghanistan. So our neighbor is
busy trying to harm us. If you see their
television they are busy with propaganda against us.

I want to tell them to 'lay off'. Our forces are on full alert and
ready for a do or die mission.

In this situation if we make the wrong decisions it can be very bad
for us. Our critical concerns are our sovereignty, second our economy, third
our strategic assets (nuclear and missiles),
and forth our Kashmir cause. All four will be harmed if we make the
wrong decision. When we make these decisions they must be according to
Islam.

Its not a question of bravery or cowardice. But bravery without
thinking is stupidity. Allah has said that he who has 'hikmat' has a huge
blessing. We have to save our interests. Pakistan
comes first, everything else is secondary.

Some 'ulema' are trying to react on pure emotions. I want to remind
them of Islam's early history. The moved from Mecca to Medina (hijrat). Was
this (God forbid) cowardice? This
was wisdom to save Islam.

Then when the Jews saw that Islam was getting stronger they started
to conspire against the muslims. When the Prophet (PBUH) saw this happening
he signed a no war pact with his
enemies in Mecca. I want to remind you of that pact. At the end of
the pact, where his signature was required, the Meccans demanded that he
cannot sign it as "Prophet Mohammed".
The Prophet (PBUH) agreed.

The Prophet explained later that its best for Islam, and it's the
right thing to do. And time proved him right. Six months later there was a
war with the Jews and the Meccans did not
support the Jews and the Muslim forces won. And some time after
that Mecca also fell to Islamic mujahideen.

Let me say that I am concerned about Afghanistan and the Talibaan.
I have tried to convince world leaders not to impose sanctions on them in
the past. I have tried my best, but sadly
without much success.

In the present situation we have been trying to convince the
Talibaan to be wise. We have also asked the US for evidence about Osama bin
Laden. Also how do we best serve
Afghanistan's interests? By going against the world community or by
working with the international community. I am sure you will agree with me
that we can only do the later.

I also know that there are people who are using this to promote
their personal agendas. At this time, we have to be make sure that our
enemies do not succeed in their designs to harm
us. Pakistan is regarded as a fort of Islam. If this fort is
damaged, islam will be damaged.

I ask you to trust me, like you trusted me when I went to Agra.

May Allah guide and protect us.

Pakistan Zindabad

[dmm]

Notice how the Pakistani leader doesn't say things like:
1) The bombing was wicked, a sin against Allah, and would still have been so even if only adult Americans had been killed.
2) We need to do all that we can to bring bin Laden to justice because it is the morally correct thing for us to do, as an Islamic country. No bribe from the US is necessary or wanted.
3) If the Taliban are trying to protect bin Laden, then we should have never befriended them. If they are unable to do the right thing because bin Laden is too powerful, then we should use Muslim troops to liberate them.

My question is:
When will we start hearing things like the above spoken loudly and forcefully from prominent Muslim leaders outside of the West?

[dogscoff]

QUOTE:
If the Afghan people do not force their government to hand over bin Laden's entire organization, then they are NOT innocent bystanders.
/QUOTE

Just ignorant ones. TV is Banned in Afghanistan. Radios are rare. I don't know about newspapers (or what the levels of literacy are) but I shouldn't think they're too liberal. Add to that the fact that most afghanistanis are too busy starving to death to worry about America or NATO or Bin Laden or getting bombed...

They've had about 30 years of war and 3 years of drought, can you blame them for being disinterested in international politics?

I don't know if it's true, but I heard that something like a quarter of aghanistanis are expected to die of starvation by Christmas.

Don't want to flame anyone with this post, but I really do feel the Afghanistani population are getting a rough deal here. We've had enough misery.

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[Captin]

Agreed, as in most countries like this, there is a difference between the population in general and the nutzo ruling party.

[arthurtuxedo]

Which is why I think we should assassinate their leaders and topple their governments, but not wage a ground war or engage in large scale bombing.

[Phoenix-D]

What you've asked for basiclly requires a ground war. In war, of any sort, civilains get hurt. The only difference is in how many.. and this type of war is very, very messy.

Phoenix-D