Ermor Themes

[Vicious Love]

Chazar said:
What are the weaknesses of Soul Gate? Does one defend against Soul Gate like one would defend against Ashen Empire (drive-by priesting, etc.)?

Drive by priesting is a tad less effective, what with their comparatively high MR. Artillery spells, excepting the few that don't count as magic weapons, are even more effective, as few units have more than zero protection. Heavy armor is only effective against relatively few of Soul Gate's units, whereas high MR will protect against nearly all. A few high-MR, high-HP thugs with Charcoal Shields(or fire shielded Black Sorcerers) should be tremendously effective, but you are likely to lose one or two of them, once one fails his paralyze MR roll.

Soul Gate's dominion is technically less dangerous than AE's, but the distinction becomes meaningless within a few rounds. Ph34r it, as you would AE.

Also, should a wraith centurion wind up in your dominion, kill with an assassination spell before he can get back to the immortality zone. Don't assume this'll immobilize his army, though; Soul Gate still gets free commanders. As with AE, worthwhile commanders like centurions and Dusk Elders are still prime targets, if difficult ones.

Update: Also, be Caelum. Even your troops are useful against these guys. Without the ethereal edge, SG's troops are ultra-light infantry. Most of their units have less than 10 HP. Dispossessed spirits only have 1.

Yet another update: Keep in mind that most of Soul Gate's units aren't mindless. Morale aside, this means they'll have a lot less trouble capturing and defending forts. On the other hand, where AE Ermor gets wicked awesome knights of the Unholy Sepulchre(and the occasional censor), Soul Gate gets only marginally better troops. Therefore, while I'd advise you demolish your own fort rather than let AE Ermor take it, less drastic measures might be in order with SG. Then again, forts protect temples from raids, and temples are an even more important target than before, providing both dominion and some truly worthwhile autosummons.

[Jurri]

Soul Gate's critters are not lifeless, either, so life drain works nicely. (Which is why Soul Gate is in my opinion much worse than Ashen Empire. Alongside of course SG having less hp in the horde and less damage potential.) In fact, they aren't mindless either, so fear and awe should work against them, too.

Also, in theory a dude with high attack and a magic weapon should repel the dipossessed spirits to death when they swarm him, right? Could be considered, in case you don't happen to have fireshield available.

[Vicious Love]

Jurri said:
Also, in theory a dude with high attack and a magic weapon should repel the dipossessed spirits to death when they swarm him, right? Could be considered, in case you don't happen to have fireshield available.

Not just in theory. They drop off like flies. I considered mentioning this, but figured it was covered by that whole "thugs vs ethereal" imperative, unless one favors 0-length weapons. Didn't think the whole morale weakness was worth pointing out, either, simply because SG has so many other, more easily exploited susceptibilities.

Alneyan said:
Note that mindless units have no problem sieging a fort: they work just as well as anyone else here. Mindless units do work poorly when defending forts.

Jurri said:
Ashen seems better even in fort defense. And of course they crack forts like heads, being both numerous and strong.

My mistake and point taken, respectively.

[spirokeat]

Death magic is very good, but I suspect the power of Ermor doesn't come from straight out of the box death. Its the themes and the units that they provide that are unique to them.

Dark Knowledge costs 3 gems rather than the 2 that the other divines cost. In my particular instance it means that as Mictlan when Mictipoctli turns up, I can throw out a revenant with him or do it with my pretender if he doesn't and have a chance at getting a death economy going.

You should probably do three challenges.

Ermor out of the box vs anyone.
Ermor AE vs anyone
Ermor SG vs Anyone.

With some good players and knowing your facing Ermor specifically I don't think it would be the walk over that people are expecting. There are plenty of undead bashing spells and items out there.

SPiro.

[Alneyan]

Note that mindless units have no problem sieging a fort: they work just as well as anyone else here. Mindless units do work poorly when defending forts.

[Jurri]

Well, it really doesn't matter if your guys are mindless or not if you have eight times more of them than your mindful comparison-group! Soul Gate guys have so low a strength anyway (on average, since most of the chaff is dispossesseds ) that Ashen seems better even in fort defense. And of course they crack forts like heads, being both numerous and strong.

[Turin]

Well I guess it´s a matter of taste which theme you like more. Either you go for masses of troops, in which case AE ermor is your favourite, or you go for awesome leaders, then you are better off with soul gate.

Both themes seem to be incredibly strong (if you know how to make money with them) and I doubt anyone could win a 1vs1 vs my SG ermor.

[thejeff]

Turin, I'm curious. How do you take provinces with just the centurions? They seem to die pretty easily against any real opposition. What does the holdx5 accomplish?
I haven't tried this, but I've seen centurions get killed often enough when they go in with troops so I'm surprised they can win alone.
Since they're immortal, you get them back, but if they don't kill enough to weaken the province it seems pointless.


Or possibly the real question: What do you use for independent strength? I usually play 7-9.
I could see this strategy working on easier settings.

[Jurri]

Oh, the centurions certainly can take indep provinces alone. The holding is for both letting the enemy troops spread a little (you know, heavy infantry is a bit slower than light, and cavalry is faster than anything) and making it harder for the opposing archers to hit. The point would be that the centurion/s routs the enemies one squad at a time, without facing them all at a time. (Turin might have another reason for it, though, but that's why I do it.)

Works on most independent settings, at least to an extent, although as the strength of the indeps goes up the chances of a centurion dying go up as well. You can add to the force as many centurions as needed, though, since they don't rout even if some die; you could also equip some of them: only some, so that if that particular centurion dies the others can pick up the stuff.

Agreed that anyone would have a hard time beating any undead theme played by an above-average skilled player in a 1v1. I still would rather face SG than AE Ermor or CW Pangaea

[quantum_mechani]

Jurri said:

Agreed that anyone would have a hard time beating any undead theme played by an above-average skilled player in a 1v1. I still would rather face SG than AE Ermor or CW Pangaea

I don't know, I never considered it much of a problem. If you know you're facing undead, and no other nations, you can adjust your strategy accordingly.