Ermor Themes

[Vicious Love]

GriffinOfBuerrig said:
I am one of those who thinks that emor(AE) is one or the strongest nation around: The death magic is SO ULTRA strong in nearly every stadium: For example: exelent early, middle and late summons

Death magic is unquestionably one of the more powerful paths in the game, even if one is aware of all the countermeasures. But AE Ermor isn't the only nation with death magic. Broken Empire has many of the advantages of Ashen Empire, none of the considerable disadvantages, and gets easy access to the ultraprecious death/astral combo. 110 gold for a half-sacred Nether Darts casters is simply a good deal, even in the late game.

At any rate, seeing as no nation relies solely on one magic path and no nation relies solely on magic, I'm really not entirely certain the magic paths should be balanced.

[spirokeat]

Death magic is very good, but I suspect the power of Ermor doesn't come from straight out of the box death. Its the themes and the units that they provide that are unique to them.

Dark Knowledge costs 3 gems rather than the 2 that the other divines cost. In my particular instance it means that as Mictlan when Mictipoctli turns up, I can throw out a revenant with him or do it with my pretender if he doesn't and have a chance at getting a death economy going.

You should probably do three challenges.

Ermor out of the box vs anyone.
Ermor AE vs anyone
Ermor SG vs Anyone.

With some good players and knowing your facing Ermor specifically I don't think it would be the walk over that people are expecting. There are plenty of undead bashing spells and items out there.

SPiro.

[quantum_mechani]

Mark the Merciful said:
I'm not one of those who would argue that Ermor is unbeatably strong, but - purely in the interests of science - I'll challenge you quantum_mechani.

I'll take one of the dead Ermor themes, you pick any other nation/theme you like, and we'll see what happens.

Whadaya say?

Sounds fair, base game or modded?

[NTJedi]

Chazar said:
That is not the purpose of themes! Themes are there for flavour, not balance.

Of course themes are for flavour... but the game can provide a wider range of gaming experiences if themes have different strengths. Your idea about the host providing extra points for beginners could also work as an alternative.

Chazar said:
However, I do not understand why dominions does not simply allow different pretender design points for different players. Why are you not allowed to give a newbie just 80 extra design points?

That's an excellent idea... hopefully dominions_3 will have something such as this introduced.

[Scott Hebert]

Broken Empire Ermor is actually one of my favorite Nation/Theme combinations. Their Grand Thaumaturgs can give them a very good chaff screen (and a Grand Thaumaturg prophet gets Longdead Horsemen). Their national units are basically Pythium's (or should I say the reverse?), which are among the best national units in the game. And, as people have mentioned, their Thaumaturgs are excellent Nether engines later.

Another note is that Death and Astral, IIRC, are the two paths that have a 1-path search spell. This allows your Thaumaturgs to search for the path sites, freeing your Grand Thaumaturgs for doing other things (like Reanimating Longdead or casting other spells).

As a final note, BE Ermor is the only nation/theme that has recruitable Unholy Priests (in any form) that does not suffer from a death scale or other drawbacks (Desert Tombs).

Ermor's pretty scary, but all death all the time makes it very much a one-trick pony. If you don't work very hard to diversify in the mid-game, then you're asking to get smacked by someone who know's how to kill the undead in large numbers.

[shovah]

like a few golem thugs with herald lances (only use golems as example for their self buffing)

[spirokeat]

Thats kinda what I thought too. But perhaps its not just the inherent ability to kill the undead that make Ermor stronger as a nation generally. The ability to just spawn and zerg large armies is probably a factor too.

In SP when I come accross them its usually a case of me being able to outlive their attrition, provided I got enough time to set up an undead bashing response. Last time it was six holy Pyre casters and about twenty five spine devils.

Spiro

[Huzurdaddi]

quantum_mechani said:

Sounds fair, base game or modded?

It's a trick. Get an axe.

You are dammed if you said base and damned if you do not. But base you may be playing calelum and that is a recipie for disaster.

quantum_mechani said:

Sounds fair, base game or modded?

Base is what I know, so I'd rather stick to that. What maps do people normally use for 1 vs 1 games?

It's a trick. Get an axe.

But the proposition we're testing is a strong one. We're assured that Ermor can beat any nation one-on-one, including a FH-spamming wrathful-skies-casting Caelum. Bring it on!