A better system for combat

[Kadste]

Not sure why initiative would be too complicated to implement. Stars another one of those space 4E games that has been out for a long time has initiative built in.

Different components can have an initiative modifier that is cumulative per ship.
Example:
Ion Engine I: 1 point
Jacketed Photon Engine I: 3 points
Bridge I: 1 point
Auxillary BridgeI: 1 point
Master computer I: 1 point
Depleted Uranium Cannon: 3 points (total regardless of the number)
Anti-matter torpedo: 1 point total regardless of the number)

Therefore faster ships would have higher initiative. Ships with shorter range weapons that do not require longer targeting times like the DUC vs Torpedo will have higher initiative.

Ship size initiative can use the number of engines, or a separate modifier.

Ship 1
6 ion I 6 points
Bridge I 1 point
3 DUC I 3 points
total 10 points

Ship 2:
6 ion I 6 points
Bridge I 1 point
2 anti-matter torpedos 1 point
total 8 points

Therefore ship 1 goes first.

I know this is a simple example, but could work.

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In difficult ground, press-on;
In encircled ground, devise stratagems;
In death ground, fight.
Sun Tzu (circa 400 B.C.)

[Tampa_Gamer]

I agree - some good ideas here. There have been a number of similar threads over the past 11 months. I believe most of the gamers (PBEM and single player) would like some sort of initiative-based system ala MOO2 or otherwise. All I can say is MM listens to the masses so everyone who wants it must e-mail him the request. Even if you e-mailed him 6 months ago about it, do it again - now.

[This message has been edited by Tampa_Gamer (edited 11 October 2001).]

[Taqwus]

It might have been easier in Stars! if the latter did not allow custom tech trees.

Here, retrofitting initiative at the level of individual components would be, er, tricky. And what if components get damaged during combat, or if a ship has different weapons, some of which are considered fast and others slow?

Hmmm. More complication could be tolerated if the interface becomes simpler, such as the AI picking all targets and when to fire -- IOW, user intervention (and thus, constant interruption) wouldn't be as much of an issue. Plot courses, give some hints perhaps (targetting priorities, say), and then the system executes for some number of rounds.

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[AJC]

I would like to see an intiative system too, I just wonder how it would respond to the many different custom tech trees..and how much work it would take to do it right..But better than nothing would be alternating firing and moves...which is probably relatively simple to implement.

[This message has been edited by AJC (edited 12 October 2001).]

[dogscoff]

I don't see how tech trees complicate matters. I mean look at the combat attack / defence modifiers: They are calculated battle by battle according to a combination of hull ability, racial bonuses, ship experience, fleet experience and researchable components - exactly what we are proposing for initiative - and that works fine.

Sure, it would probably require a major re-write to many parts of the game, but I should think much of it could be copy/ pasted from the code which controls the other combat modifiers.

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SE4 Code:
L GdY $ Fr- C- Sd T!+ Sf-- Tcp-- A% M>M+ MpD! RV Pw Fq+ Nd- Rp+ G-
/SE4 Code
Go to my meagre SEIV pages to generate your own code.

[capnq]

Just to complicate the issue further:

Would the very rare case when there's more than two empires involved in a battle affect how an initiative syatem worked?

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Cap'n Q
My first mod! Hypermaze quadrant
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

[Deathstalker]

Just chipping in my 'vision' for a system of combat initative: (highest number goes first, if there is a tie then both ships go at the same time with damage being applied to both ships at the end of their movement phase):

Hard Code Modifications: Add a line to ALL components in components.txt, line goes like this 'Combat initative modifier' (like the 'to hit' % modifier), this number can be both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE. Add a similar line to the CompEnhancement.txt for weapon mounts. This way people can modd the numbers to be what they want, include an ability in the abilities.txt (think that is what it is called, where the system abilities etc is stored) that contains a random number entry, where the user can also modd. Include a start and a finish, positive and negative numbers. (ie, random combat initive number: -10 to 20, or -1 to 5, etc)

The Numbers : (will be using -2 to +6, with a random 0 to 6 added to initative).Remember highest goes first.

Ship Initative:
Escort:6
Frigate:5
Destroyer:4
Light Cruiser:3
Cruiser:2
Battle Cruiser:1
Battle Ship:0
Dreatnought:-1
BaseShip:-2
Carrier:1
Transport Class: 0
Colonizer Class:-1

Engine Bonus:, +1 per engine, with an additional +1 for each engine 'level' (not tech level, but the different engine levels, ie, Ion, Conterra, Photon etc).

Component Bonus: Combat Sensors+1/level to +3, Combat ECM(?) +1/level to +3, Master Computer, +1/level to +3, Solar Sail -1 (big, unwieldy), Solar Collectors(?) -1 (big, unwieldy), Religious Talisman +2, Psychic Sensors +1 lev to +3, Hyper Optics +1/level to +3, Grav Sensors +1/level to +3 etc.

This would be the base of it, with a random 0 to 6 added, highest number goes first.

Example:

2Frigates, with 6 engines each (contra Terr level, +2 bonus), combat sensors I and Master Computers I. Total Initative is 14 + 0 to 6.

vs. 1 Dreadnought: 2 engines (Photon level, +3 bonus), Talisman, Combat ECM I, Hyper Optics I, Master Computer II. Total Initative is 10 plus 0 to 6.


The Dreadnought in this example can still go first, all it has to do is get a random combat initative number result of 5 or 6, and the Frigates 'roll' a result of 0 or 1.


Thoughts????

[This message has been edited by Deathstalker (edited 13 October 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Deathstalker (edited 13 October 2001).]