Improvement proposal III - Spinning StuGs

[Double_Deuce]

While I would like to see something like this I can see it being used by players as an easy cheat. If this was not an IGO-UGO game I would agree 100%. Maybe a lessening of accuracy rather than complete inability to spin/react to enemy actions during the other players turn.

[Artur]

How exactly could this be used to cheat?

Artur.

[Double_Deuce]

You just drive around and up behind them and shoot in the rear (if they are prevented from reacting at all during the defending players turn that is). If you add in some penalties to their reacting thats a different story.

[Artur]

If you pop up in the StuG's view it will be able to shoot at you. If it kills you you desrve it. However if you do that outside it's view than you travel faster than it can turn and you deserve your kill over the StuG IMHO.

What will lead to if this is going to be implemented?
Players will have to attempt for long range engagements, this way it will be hard or even impossible to flank the StuGs. Especially if the improvement about OP fire setting will be implemented they can be very effective at long range.
If they are going to chrge they it will be a different story, they get close to the enemy and can be flanked easily. Assault guns are defensive weapons, or support weapons not the ones to lead the charge IMHO.

Of course theye can be a penaly made to only react after a LOT of triggering events mentioned above it depends on how easily it can be implemented.

Artur.

PS: Think about how they are used in CM. Seasoned players always deploy them in the rear, especially in the corners to always have their front threatened only. I suffered great losses while chrging with StuGs in CM (a'la SP) and I fully deserved it.

[Captain_Cruft]

I theoretically agree with DD. Turret turning (or whole vehicle turning as with assault guns etc.) should cost MPs not be completely removed.

The problem is, I don't the think the engine has a concept of MPs for the non-phasing player's units, just "shots". A very large amount of work to implement this methinks.

To be honest, the spinning StuG has never bothered me in SPWW2, only in SPWaW with special op-fire ...

[Mobhack]

Exactly as Double Deuce deduced !! - units need to be able to react in the enemy turn certainly, because of the IGO-UGO nature of the game.

Reducing the "quantum" of the turn interval allows finer distinctions, but the overlap would still be there, as well as the "freezing" of your unit in its end point for the entire enemy phase of the turn. The cost of that is more turns to do the same thing (or game systems with complex interacting sub-phases etc.)

The reaction return fire (and turning) is in there to balance the time overlap of P1 and P2 in a IGOUGO system.

For reaction fires - a unit which wants to turn to point a hull mounted weapon (hull turn) has a much lower chance than a turreted vehicle. Especially if it has moved.

I'll check the turn-to-face code and see if it is using the right sort of chances for hull turns.

But the bottom line is that because of the game system - enemy units must be able to react.

Cheers
Andy