How to use Syrian SAM-aamissiles

[Mobhack]

a quick 5 minute test scenario.

Syrians in 73, bought SA-2 guidelines. Placed near the back of of a 100 wide map. 50 visibility - but irrelevant as radar SAM. Bought 4 trucks as bait for the israeli planes. deployed in the middle of the map.

Bought the israelis 2 neshers. Plotted to arrive turn 1 and strafe the trucks.

In about 6-8 test runs, only once did the Syrians fail to fire a SAM. When they did fire, percentages were about 12-18% (before any avoidance action).

The occasion when no SAM were let off was probably a combination of low skill (low hit%) and all 4 SAM sites failing to-fire skill rolls, or the percentages to hit were too low to make the shot worthwhile (probably, israieli plane rolled high on EW and the SAM rolled low, for 2 planes and 4 possible firers = 8 opportunities).

Moral - buy more SAM if Syrian, as with 8 launchers, there is less chance of all of them to fail a skill or electronic warfare roll simultaneously

cheers
Andy

[fossiili]

Thank you for the adwise!

[Marek_Tucan]

on a similar topic... I was very glad to see that in WinSPMBT the SAM's fired from off-board (artillery) units have same hit %'s as onboard, so I've quickly created off-board LR SAM's, usually with 93 code in Heavy Arty... Works well for me.

[Mobhack]

The problems with off-map SAM are that you cannot reload them. Also - as planes only attack on-map targets, you probably will not be able to attack them (antir radar missiles may allow this, and possibly missiles?).

The ability to fire SAM from off map is a bug - and will be fixed later.

Cheers
Andy

[Double_Deuce]

I wouldn't see it as being a big deal having the Off Map SAM's BUT having on map SAM's retreat off map and then still be in play is just wrong when other units would be out of the engagement. The code may not allow a distinction in this case so removing them from off map use is probably the best option.

[Mustang]

Do you think that they're really worth the price? 100 points for a 10% hit chance? I usually don't buy long-range SAMs. Stingers and Strelas are super-cheap, and they'll usually get a few hits in if you buy a lot of them.

[Double_Deuce]

Mustang said:
Do you think that they're really worth the price? 100 points for a 10% hit chance?

Not really. I try to avoid using aircraft and the larger SAMS's when designing scenario's trying to keep in mind that this primarily a ground combat game. I might use a couple aircraft here and there to spice things or keep a player on their toes but nothing that would require them purchasing any real amount of ADA stuff.

When I have a chace to play PbeM (which is rare) I generally negotiate a strict limit on aircraft because even a couple can through the battle way out of balance.

[Mobhack]

Mustang said:
Do you think that they're really worth the price? 100 points for a 10% hit chance? I usually don't buy long-range SAMs. Stingers and Strelas are super-cheap, and they'll usually get a few hits in if you buy a lot of them.

They are the only weapon system that can deal with stand-off missile firers.
They get a shot opportunity before the fixed wing air arrives on map.
They are big, so an actual hit tends to be fatal.
They can fire at bombers - many low range sams and flack cannot.

Also - you only get a 10% or so hit chance when you are using a low experience crew, and a low EW rating versus the target. An SA2 Guidline may not be good against 1970s fighters, but try it against say Hunters in the late 50s and early 60s.

EW is the key one here - if you have various ones to chose from then take the one with the better EW, if that is evens - the better FC radar.

Even if they have a low %age - then you can still get a golden BB. 100 points is not much, and with access to ammo dumps or ammo vehicles, if the enemy does nothing against them, you get reasonably continuous fires.

I'd buy SA-3 systems as they have 3 on the rails, in preference to SA-2. And 1 point better EW. Plus at least 2 ammo trucks for the battery.

But my chief "killers" would be ZSU-23-4s and strelas parked near the key assets, backed up by SA-6 gainful(EW 5), and once I had access to the SA-6 I'd ignore the obsolescent SA-2 and 3.

However - in a 1967 situation as Syria, the SA2 guidelines would be very useful, and certainly not past thier sell-by date at that point in time.

Cheers
Andy

[Marek_Tucan]

Mobhack said:
The problems with off-map SAM are that you cannot reload them.

But reloading say SA-2 is anyway quite long, most likely outside the scope of the game. And with quick-reload missiles you can buy more units or give them more ammo (as with OM arty).

Also - as planes only attack on-map targets, you probably will not be able to attack them (antir radar missiles may allow this, and possibly missiles?).

ARM's work, but there is a bug that if you have reinforcemens assigned to the scenario the ARM hits also reinforcements Now this is really damaging the concept, I admit. Or maybe not, haven't tested it for 2.0, will try this evening and will report results ASAP.

The ability to fire SAM from off map is a bug - and will be fixed later.

Cheers
Andy

Would it be possible to remove the ability to fire while off-map only from on-map units? I'd like to see OM SAM's working also in further versions. Please...

(doing such kind of face my brother's dog does when asking for a cookie )

[Mobhack]

It is a bug. It will be fixed.

Cheers
Andy