OT: Muhammed-caricatyres and freedom of speach

[Atrocities]

Don't get me wrong, but sometimes I wish a large enough group of people here in the US would get bat**** angry over things much like our eastern friends. Not to the point of killing people or destroying property, but more to the point of telling our government, private business, and so on that we don't like being treated unfairly or being ripped off. Image if all the people in the US went bat**** bad over the Enron, MCI, Tyco, collapses? Or when the Government takes private property and gives it to a developer who then makes millions. If that is not a reason to get bat**** angery, then I don't know what is.

Our friends from the east might be onto something here.

[dogscoff]

Yes, the people burning buildings and killing people are mindless [censored] idiots, but they DO NOT REPRESENT ISLAM AS A WHOLE. Islam is a peaceful religion. There are individuals within it who happen to be psychopathic ****wipes but that means nothing. You have to remember Islam has a much flatter, less heirarcichal structure than christianity. No-one represents Islam in the same way the Pope represents Catholocism, so any head-up-his-arse tosspot with a headful of other people's martyrdom can speak up and be heard. The more moderate ones speak up too, it's just that "hey, let's all be nice to one-another" doesn't grab the headlines in the same way "KILL ALL THE INFIDELS! SEND THEM BACK TO HELL!" does.

To a certain extent the fault lies with the media. Quite apart from the fact that certain media interests are more than a little influenced by certain political groups who might find that the demonisation of a particular religious persuasions could possibly go some way toward justifying certain less-than-friendly and politically-sensitive actions taken toward those groups in the recent past (and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this latest development turned out to be a deliberate attempt to antagonise the muslim world in order to more easily demonise it), the plain fact of the matter is that hatred, conflict and intolerance sell newspapers/ news TV a lot better than moderation and calm. And it works on both sides of the fence I'm sure- I don't doubt that the Islamic media have had a part in whipping up the storm, and shame on them.

Look at us from Muslim eyes. Imagine how their news reports told the stories of the last four years (or how their how their history books tell the last four HUNDRED years) and try to see the picture that must be presented to them. If we want them to believe that the abuses of abu-graib, guantanamo bay and the like are mere abberations in an the behaviour of otherwise well-behaved forces, we have to accept that the actions of the minority of muslims in this case do not reflect the majority. If we want them to believe in our humanity, we must first ackowledge theirs.

Anyway, if you want to read the words of a moderate muslim calling for calm and understanding, please go back and read the link I posted upthread. If you don't want to read it, then tough [censored] because I'm going to quote it, coz it seems clear to me that no-one bothered to read it before. Yay to the BBC for giving these words some airtime.

(Abdullah Badawi, Malaysia's prime minister) said mere talk and being nice to one another were not enough, and mutual respect should replace hegemony.

"They think Osama bin Laden speaks for the religion and its followers," he said, quoted by the Associated Press news agency.

"The demonisation of Islam and the vilification of Muslims, there is no denying, is widespread within mainstream Western society."

But Muslims for their part had to avoid "sweeping denunciation of Christians, Jews and the West", he added.

"The West should treat Islam the way it wants Islam to treat the West and vice versa. They should accept one another as equals," he said.

Remember, there are a zillion examples of Islam living comfortably and peacefully side-by-side with other religions and cultures in the east, the west and everywhere else. That is the norm. That is Islam.

[Phoenix-D]

"(and I wouldn't be at all surprised if this latest development turned out to be a deliberate attempt to antagonise the muslim world in order to more easily demonise it)"

On the other hand, I wouldn't be surprised if it was an attempt on the part of tin-pot dictators to piss people off, in order to have an outside enemy to point at.

Notice, for example, that the cartoons were originally published in September..and that some of the cartoons circulating are fakes that look designed to be offensive.

[abda]

Post deleted by abda

[Atrocities]

If they got mad about some cartoons, then they should not watch South Park. Oh man did they ever rape Bin Laudin over the humilation coals.

[Hugh Manatee]

I have good odds that the south park creators take this and run with it. It's not beyond them to put Muhamed in their show. That or they will have their "Jesus" character get pissed about a caricture of himself.

[Ed Kolis]

/me can just imagine it now... After defeating Santa Claus over Christmas, Jesus takes on Mohammed in the ONE-ON-ONE ULTIMATE PROPHET SHOWDOWN!!!!!
edit: hmm, perhaps we should bring this up over in the Dominions forum... throw in a few Pretender-Gods to the mix and we can REALLY have a party!

[Renegade 13]

dogscoff said:
Anyway, if you want to read the words of a moderate muslim calling for calm and understanding, please go back and read the link I posted upthread. If you don't want to read it, then tough [censored] because I'm going to quote it, coz it seems clear to me that no-one bothered to read it before. Yay to the BBC for giving these words some airtime.

It seems a little hypocritical for the Malaysian PM to say that it's not representative of the Muslim world, or that most Muslims have avoided denunciations of the West, Jews, etc., when the people of his own country are marching in the streets shouting "Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George Bush. Destroy America." (Also quoted from your article. Someone read it ) Seems he doesn't have a leg to stand upon when his own people are doing that...

Also rather odd, since as far as I know, American newspapers haven't published the cartoons...but I guess "Destroy America" is just the standard refrain nowadays.

I wonder how the Muslim world would react if Christians started marching in the streets shouting "Destroy Islam, Destroy Mecca, Destroy Medina, Destroy the Muslims!"

The point is, you do see some Muslims marching the streets spouting off their violent propaganda. You don't see any other religions doing that.

[Atrocities]

"Why don't moderate muslims who don't like the violence stand up against those who are causing it?"

Because they would be killed.

[dogscoff]

t seems a little hypocritical for the Malaysian PM to say that it's not representative of the Muslim world, or that most Muslims have avoided denunciations of the West, Jews, etc., when the people of his own country are marching in the streets shouting "Long live Islam. Destroy Denmark. Destroy Israel. Destroy George Bush. Destroy America."

all the people of Malaysia?

I wonder how the Muslim world would react if Christians started marching in the streets shouting "Destroy Islam, Destroy Mecca, Destroy Medina, Destroy the Muslims!"

The point is, you do see some Muslims marching the streets spouting off their violent propaganda. You don't see any other religions doing that.

No, but what they do see is a very christian president bush and PM blair (Bush has made several references to being inspired by God regarding his actions wrt the middle east) actively MAKING WAR on middle eastern countries. I mean come on, what's more intimidating? A bunch of angry civilians marching and shouting 12000 miles away, or a couple of nuclear superpowers stomping around, blowing [censored] up and killing people by the thousand in the country next door.