New OOB for Finland... (OBSOLETE THREAD)

[Thexder]

Thank you Zipuli for all your hard work!

This OOB is like a dream come true for a player that likes to operate with the Finns! A real cultural landmark!

I'm not that big of an expert in Finnish army, but everything looks to be correct in this OOB, at least in modern times. There's many juicy things added like motorcycle scouts and new AGL's with AP-ammunition. Also all kinds of spec ops troops are included now. They're interesting, but don't have that much use in the game IMO. Still a good addition especially fro those who build scenarios. Also the new formations like Jaeger Brigade 05 and Urban Jaegers are very cool and I can't wait to play with them. The hvy snipers and new PzJaeger formations are also worth mentioning.

While I don't have any big complaints, I find the number of FO teams a bit problematic. Especially with Marine Jaegers there's too many FO teams included which makes the formation too expensive to use. This might be realistic in real life but backfires in the game. I suggest that you'd do another formation of Marine Jaeger Co with less FO teams or with and FO platoon that could be deleted from the formation after buying it.

But this is a very minor fault that doesn't ruin this great OOB in any way.

Thank you again and keep up the good work,
Cheers,
Jukka

[pdoktar]

Finally I got the opportunity to check your oob. It is good.

However I found some interesting figures.

Leo 2A4 frontal armor is corrected. However the side armors seem still old.

FIN hull side steel 9 HEAT 37
GER(91-96) steel 13 HEAT 33

I assume that finns have bought the upgraded "schurzen" Leo2A4s, as fielded by the bundeswehr.

Leo 2A4M concept seems to have only the turret uparmoring package. However this still differs from 2A5 turret scheme.

FIN turret side steel 20 HEAT 50, turret rear 10 and 25
GER turret side steel 30 HEAT 50, turret rear 15 and 30

Probably the finns will eventually upgrade to Leo 2A5 standard, so the concept tank is very good to include.

120mm L44 WG87 and 120mm L44 Fi07 accuracies are still 11, that should be corrected to the new standard of 14. (See main gun acc. thread and ver2.51 US oob)

Another issue (been here before) generic Sniper rifle accuracy is 30. This means that a basic to hit is 50% at 1500meters. Maybe acc should be 15, so base 50% is achieved at 750meters, as some oobs suggest. Heavy Snipers could have the acc. 30.

And I personally have general suspicions about BM II Autocannons capability to penetrate 16cm of rolled homogenous armor. As much as a WW2 17pdr would. Seems unbelievable for a 30mm weapon, whatever magic bullets one could use.

[Zipuli]

@pdoktar

I'm not quite sure about what skirts the German OOB has, because there are 2 different kinds used. But anyway, it seems a little weak! Maybe I look into this later when I have time! At Leo 2A4M, I think upgrade is possible if money is given (which I highly doubt!) and my intention was to give it the front&side turret wedged armour upgrade seen on 2A5, so maybe I made a little mistake with the armour ratings... I'll see to it later!

The accuracies 11 thing is new to me, let's see if it is fixed in 3.0, because many OOBs seem to have acc 11, not 14?!? Same with sniper accuracy, let's see what happens in 3.0...

BM2 with sabot ammo is a real killer (the MP ammo is bad), but as I compared it with the Swedish 40mm I think both are a bit overpowered! Their penetration should be quite close - this is why Finland bought the 30mm, not the 40mm. But anyway, even the practice ammunition (sabot) for the 30mm cannon WILL penetrate BMP-2s front armour easily

@thexder

Yes the spec ops are there only to exist... maybe in some scenarios, who knows! I don't use them either

The FO thing is a bit problematic, because FOs are usually integrated in the platoon level, which means that it's normal to have FO sec in a platoon (of any kind). I gave the 05 units an FO platoon if someone likes to delete it in the buy list, but didn't do it for the naval units... Let's see later, if I change this. Anyway, the FOs are there because they really are there! Actually this OOB has quite a small amount of FO teams in formations, as most platoon size "special" (ATGM, Recce etc.) formations have FOs too. I left them out, but the player can buy them individually!

Zip

[Warhero]

Zipuli, why you didn't added Hornets into this year (2006) too? Am I understood something wrong? I mean that if I want to use aircraft, I must choose only Hawk fighters? You say "Now the Hornets perform only anti-fighter-duties". Ok, I understand it but why they are still not available in your OOB at this moment too (I just checked this)... Is it really so that Finnish airforce's main fighter is still Hawk, not Hornet???

Anyway, your OOB is otherwise very good done!

Warhero

[Thexder]

Warhero said:
Zipuli, why you didn't added Hornets into this year (2006) too? Am I understood something wrong? I mean that if I want to use aircraft, I must choose only Hawk fighters? You say "Now the Hornets perform only anti-fighter-duties". Ok, I understand it but why they are still not available in your OOB at this moment too (I just checked this)... Is it really so that Finnish airforce's main fighter is still Hawk, not Hornet???

Warhero

If I've understood correctly, the Hornets don't have any weapons with which to shoot the ground targets. Like Zipuli said, they are only used to fight the enemy air forces, not ground objectives. And the game, of course, doesn't simulate the dog fights high above the infantry. If I remember correctly, there has been some talk of purchasing air-to-ground weapons to the Hornets as well. But it hasn't got approval yet (I'm not sure whether this is because political or fiscal reasons - or both).

Cheers,
Jukka

[Zipuli]

Yes, as Thexder says Finland has no A-G weapons for Hornets, nor A-G training for Hornet pilots... Only a few Hawks are used for war-time dutied anymore, and I am quite confident that they wouldn't attack ground targets either, but I gave them rockets for I've seen some photos of Finn Hawks with rocket pods under wings... Not sure if they were only for tests or..???

The reason Finnish Hornets are called F-18, not F/A-18 is that they were bought only for air-supremacy (sort of ) duties and all air-to-ground stuff was left out. BUT now that the politicians decided to remove AP (anti-personel) land mines from use before 2016 something was needed to replace them. How would you replace AP land mines? Finland's decision was to buy MLRS rocket launchers and later to arm some of the Hornets with "glide-bombs" (sort of "smart" cruise-missile-meets-iron-bomb-thing).

I'm not into politics, but it does sound a bit weird, doesn't it?

Zip

[pdoktar]

Politicians decide, everybody else whines.. Knowing that the Hornet deal became quite expensive it can be said that Buying the whole package at the first time might´ve been somewhat cost-efficient.

Interesting enough, finns decided against SP-artillery, but are now buying MLRS, knowing the quality of Tampella and Vammas´ guns, it is unbelivable that their products couldn´t be integrated to, say, AS90.

And now they´re buying MLR$...