OT, galactic civ II

[Saber Cherry]

Anyone reading this thread may wish to look at the GC2 thread in the Space Empires forum as well. Opinions vary, with mine seeming the most negative, for some reason. I think the next patch (+demo) is scheduled for the end of the month.

[Ironhawk]

Oooo, I'd definitely like to see a demo.

As for MP, the only problem you all list is the time it takes to build/research things. If thats the only problem then stardock should just drop all the production and research costs by like 1/2 or 1/4 or something for MP play.

That said: I thought that Stardock said they were not pursuing any MP development. Saying that SP was where thier market was so they were just going to do that.

[Gandalf Parker]

Their initial basis was the artificial intelligence of adversaries. For many years they have been the number #1 game mentioned in any AI paper as far as game AI. At that time it was available for OS/2 only since Windows didnt have multi-tasking then. Now they are moving into the other OS's, marketing the game, etc etc. But since AI was the starting point (which is mostly a solo-play thing) then I think MultiPlay is probably the last thing to be figured into the GalCiv game. Thats the reverse of many other games which start with the MP, then later on try to add AI onto it.

[cjx]

In my opinion the game is pretty awful. If you're a Dom2 fan I think you'll be left with a bad taste in your mouth. I can deal with the terrible interface (hey, I play Dom2 don't I?), I can even deal with the poor (and in some cases wrong)documentation, but what I find unacceptable is that there are showstopping AI flaws (tech buy/sell cheese, planet stealing during allied wars) in a game with no multiplayer. Make no mention of the multitude of bugs. Yes, they are fixing them and yes everyone seems to be publishing unfinished games, but that's no excuse to release a game with the volume of problems they had.

Reading threads on their messageboards I found the tone of the vocal developer to be very condescending and sometimes downright insulting to the players who questioned/complained about some "features". Some of the baloney responses that the devs fabricate really seem to indicate that they don't even know how to fix the problems so they try and pretend they are game features.

The depth of strategies in GalCiv2 boils down to which overpowered strat do you want to cheese the computer with. If you're satisfied bumbling around in the dark and never trying to understand the game you're playing and never actually formulating a strategy, GalCiv2 is for you. If you've played and liked Dom2 (MoO2) you'll be disappointed.

Just my opinion. I really wanted to like the game. I really wanted to like MoO3 too... Turn based strategy that's worthwhile? CiV4 and Dom2 are great games. MoO2, CiV3, Advance Wars. I like TBS and 4x, but I regret purchasing GalCiv2.

cjx

[NTJedi]

thanks cjx.... I did some more browsing on their forums and you're right... definitely a reason to wait for multiplayer.

[RonD]

I think "pretty awful" is harsh. (I'm not saying you shouldn't think that or express your thoughts here, by the way - I'm just disagreeing with you)

cjx said:
The depth of strategies in GalCiv2 boils down to which overpowered strat do you want to cheese the computer with. If you're satisfied bumbling around in the dark and never trying to understand the game you're playing and never actually formulating a strategy, GalCiv2 is for you. If you've played and liked Dom2 (MoO2) you'll be disappointed.

Winning SP by applying cheeze strats most certainly applies to dom2 (see SC's recent post advocating summoning all the blood uniques - we all know full well that the AI can't handle that). As for Moo2, the AI's "intelligence" consisted entirely of giving the computer overwhelming resource advantages.

Sure I'd love MP galciv2 (if they could implement it so that the game actually moved along at a decent pace). But for SP, comparing gc2 to dom2, it is a lot easier to have fun by choosing to not use cheeze strats in gc2. Even the civ4 forums are full of ideas on ways to make victory all but certain on most of the difficulty levels. Maybe that makes me a "bumbler", but I really cannot think of any SP TBS games (discounting chess, etc) that cannot be beat by exploiting AI weaknesses.

Yes, I prefer MP TBS games for that reason (but very very few other than dom2 implement MP in a way that fits my schedule). So I won't knock gc2 just because it has not fully overcome that inherent weakness of SP strategy games.

Finally, while you may or may not like Brad Wardell and his style, I find it refreshing that he is putting himself right out front - not just in the stardock forums, either. He regularly answers questions in places like OO and QT3 as well.

[OG_Gleep]

Yeah, you could say the same thing about a lot of games. Gamers will always find a way to outsmart the AI, thats why MP is for the most part much more challenging.

That said, I don't take most of the threads *****ing about that kind of stuff to heart this close to release. I'm not saying this is the case here, but I have found that a lot of people complain about "challenge" when they are playing on easy, then come back and say the game is too hard when the bump up the difficulty settings.

And anytime I see a developer in a forum, it is a good thing. I don't care if he is an ***.

[Gandalf Parker]

Decent multiplay and decent soloplay have always seemed to be to be anti to each other. Too many good features of one tends to ruin the other. Id much prefer that a developer pick one or the other to concentrate on, and then add whatever they can of the other without compromising the focus of the game

[Oversway]

Winning SP by applying cheeze strats most certainly applies to dom2 (see SC's recent post advocating summoning all the blood uniques - we all know full well that the AI can't handle that). As for Moo2, the AI's "intelligence" consisted entirely of giving the computer overwhelming resource advantages.

I read cjx's post as being unhappy that you can exploit the ai reasoning in sp *because there was NO mp alternative*. I didn't think he was merely lamenting lack of good ai alone. Which makes sense to me. Its one thing to have bad AI when you can do something about it - either play mp or script a better ai, etc. It is quite another when you cannot.

[PrinzMegaherz]

I would like to post a short review of my last game against that awful AI most of the other posters here keep complaining about.

After some successes on smaller maps, I decide to play a huge map with normal difficulty setting. I chose the Altarian Republic to bring peace to the galaxy

Early Expansion
I'm lucky and start the game in a corner of the universe with enough stars around to expand, but with enough distance to the other empires. This will give me some time to prepare for first contact. While expanding, I focus my research on improving my diplomatic skills, because I (playing a good nation) would prefer to win the game by allying with everyone else.

The Drath Wars
Everyone likes me, even the evil Drath Legions. I have remained neutral for most of the time, but now I have to make a decision: The Drath Legions (stongest fleet at that time) have invaded my neighbour, the Iconian Refuge (weakest empire around). Being good, I can't stand bullying and have no choice but to intervene. After diplomatic channels fail to produce a solution, I declare war on the evil Drath. After some initial defeats, my fleets manage to hold their ground and the war comes to a hold.

First universal war
The largest nation, the Torian Alliance, rules the center of the universe. They have common borders with all other nations. Their influence has spread into the territory of their neighbours, and some planets have started to break away from their empires to join the Torian Alliance. Of course those empires have no love for someone stealing their planets, and war errupts. The Torrian Alliance, due to it's delicate position in the middle of the universe, needs a strong ally and secure borders. They chose to ally with the Drath, joining the two separate wars into a big mess. I take the chance and attack the Torian Alliance, snatching some planets next to my borders. Crippled by the attack, the Torian Alliance slowly begins to lose the war, even with the help of the Drath. After some time they offer me peace, grudgingly handing me the control over two more planets. I again declare war and hope to bargain another peace for even more planets. It shall not be, as the Torian Alliance realizes it's defeat, and surrenders all it's remains to the Drath, which are now both the largest and strongest force around. Just as the war comes to another hold, with forces on both sides being depleted, the Dominion of Korx enter the war, it's untouched fleets rampaging through the Drath territory and conquering a large part of the Drath empire. The Drath finally agree to cease fire, and peace returns to the galaxy.

The aftermath

The war leaves me in a mixed position. While I have a massive fleet, many ships are old and not much of a use in future wars. At the same time my people are starting to revolt because of the high taxes I had to collect to keep the war going. I thought my security granted by my three allies. Killing two birds with one stone, I ordered a large part of my fleet to be dismantled, providing the credits to lower my taxes and to buy an alliance with the last neutral empire: The Dominion of Korx. While the Korx had joined the war against the Drath, we never became friends enough to become allies. It would require some time to earn their friendship, or so I thought.

The second universal war

The Korx sensed my weakness and immediately declared war. Much to my horror, only the Iconian Refuge, bound by years of common struggle, honored it's alliance and declared war on the Korx. My other two allies remained neutral, waiting for the right moment to make their own moves. The Korx, who were neutral for most of the first universal war, had a state of the art fleet. Were it not for the Iconians, I would have been overrun in the first few turns. However, I only lost some border colonies and had time enough to rebuild some strength to reconquer those planets. At the peak of the war, my two allies which had remained neutral so far decided to act. The one next to the Korx declared war upon me, fearing that the Korx would destroy it else. The other declared war upon the Xorx, attacking the traitor's flank and grapping some border colonies.

With a diplomatic victory out of reach now, everything seems possible. Who will win this war? Will the Drath use the time to recover? Can a diplomatic victory be achieved? I'll find out later.