Dominions 3 News!

[Jurri]

Yeah, that's exactly the point being made: LCD monitors are crappy. However, CRTs might incur a greater ecological cost for reasons listed above, so there could be a reason for using an inferior product over the better one. (Again, I'm not familiar with the production methods of either, I only know of power usage and recycling considerations.) Of course, Cherry's list was of things that have better alternatives for higher price, so maybe it's a poor example to use the one thing on the list that doesn't comform.

Well, upon reflection this is way OT, but I like tapwater so much that I couldn't not comment!

A paper manual is not a good solution in my opinion and I'm rather saddened to see it used as a reason to have high prices. Also, it's an ecological stress to print paper manuals: small one, I know, but for something that has no value even that is too much. You already need a computer to play the game, so not having the manual on the cd or on the net (a wiki is an awesome solution: minimal production costs!) is something of a missed opportunity, in my opinion. You can't do word-searches or hyper-linked indexes on paper so unless you have a preference to read from paper instead of glass an electric format is superior in every way. Of course, most do have such a preference, but I'd still like to see an alternative offered for those not so inclined. Like selling the manual separately instead of being forced to buy one when you buy the game. There's nothing stopping one from printing a document if it's useful either, so all parties could be satisfied without a paper manual, too.

[Cainehill]

Eh - LCDs definately have their advantages over CRTs too. For example : it's been a _long_ time since I saw a CRT type monitor that had portrait orientation. (As I recall it was part of an expensive Wang word processing hardware suite, not even a general purpose computer.) Whereas my LCD I can swivel 90 degrees, giving a choice of landscape (for gaming) and portrait (for editing source code, working on documents, browsing the web). I do also have a CRT hooked up next to the LCD, but when it dies I'll probably get another LCD.

As far as the paper manual goes : I hate games that don't provide a printed manual. (It's a little different when you purchase the jewel case version for $10.) Sure, I have dual monitors, so I can sometimes look at the manual on one monitor and the game in the other : but then again, a lot of full screen games don't like dual screens. They crash when you try to go to the other monitor, or at best, hang while they don't have focus. And if you _don't_ have dual monitor displays, it's a real PITA trying to play and look at the electronic format manual.

And it sucks trying to print the manuals, usually using more paper than a preprinted manual would, resulting in a pile of paper that isn't nearly as convenient as a book-style manual, especially as most people's home printers don't have duplex ability (to automatically print on both sides of the paper, collating pages, etc).

[Agrajag]

Cainehill said:

Eh - LCDs definately have their advantages over CRTs too. For example : it's been a _long_ time since I saw a CRT type monitor that had portrait orientation. (As I recall it was part of an expensive Wang word processing hardware suite, not even a general purpose computer.) Whereas my LCD I can swivel 90 degrees, giving a choice of landscape (for gaming) and portrait (for editing source code, working on documents, browsing the web). I do also have a CRT hooked up next to the LCD, but when it dies I'll probably get another LCD.

I'm note sure I understand what you mean here, do you mean "flipping" the monitor on its side so that it will be like a paper page?
If you do, I don't see how that would help me. Its just as easy reading "normally", especially if you are reading from a website (rather than a document), since the website interface usually takes up horizontal space.
And you could flip a CRT monitor on its side, it will be pretty crude, but you can put it on its side, and flipping the display is very simple (just get the latest Nvidia drivers).

And as for paper manual VS electronic manual;
Both options aren't very good, you can't read the electronic manual while playing the game, and you can't easily search through a paper manual (what would I do without CTRL+F?!), and you also can't read the electronic one while not on the computer (say... You want to read the manual on the bus, or on an airplane or whatever).
The ultimate option is, obviously to have both!
Put a paper manual in the game case, but have a (none-scanned!) PDF version on the disc, so depending on the circumstances you can choose which one to use.

[Cainehill]

Agrajag said:

I'm note sure I understand what you mean here, do you mean "flipping" the monitor on its side so that it will be like a paper page?
If you do, I don't see how that would help me. Its just as easy reading "normally", especially if you are reading from a website (rather than a document), since the website interface usually takes up horizontal space.
And you could flip a CRT monitor on its side, it will be pretty crude, but you can put it on its side, and flipping the display is very simple (just get the latest Nvidia drivers).

Even here on Shrapnel's forums, the portrait orientation allows me to see / read more of the text onscreen at one time. If you don't think seeing more at once is better - try resizing your browser to half height, and look at how little you can see at a time. Fact is that most "modern" websites waste horizontal space, since they have a maximum amount of text they'll display in a given line. It's even more obvious / pertinent with sites like the new york times.

And viewing PDF files or documents : with the vertical orientation, I can view a full page at 100% zoom. If the monitor is horizontal, again : lots of space wasted on the sides, while I can't view an entire page at once.

Heh. Flipping a CRT monitor on its side isn't very practical, not when the monitor weighs 60+ pounds, has curved sides and the like. Not only inconvenient when you may switch back and forth several times a day, but almost certainly bad for the monitor's longevity.

And, another virtual of LCD monitors : a lot easier to fit several of them into a limited amount of space. My 19" CRT takes, mmm, 19" horizontal and 21 or 22" depth-wise - and it's a so-called "short-neck" design. The 19" LCD, even in "normal" landscape mode, is 15" wide (12" in portrait mode) and requires only about 7" depth.

I can support 3 monitors with my current graphics setup - but certainly can't fit 3 CRT monitors in my workspace.

[Agrajag]

Cainehill said:
Even here on Shrapnel's forums, the portrait orientation allows me to see / read more of the text onscreen at one time. If you don't think seeing more at once is better - try resizing your browser to half height, and look at how little you can see at a time. Fact is that most "modern" websites waste horizontal space, since they have a maximum amount of text they'll display in a given line. It's even more obvious / pertinent with sites like the new york times.

And viewing PDF files or documents : with the vertical orientation, I can view a full page at 100% zoom. If the monitor is horizontal, again : lots of space wasted on the sides, while I can't view an entire page at once.

Heh. Flipping a CRT monitor on its side isn't very practical, not when the monitor weighs 60+ pounds, has curved sides and the like. Not only inconvenient when you may switch back and forth several times a day, but almost certainly bad for the monitor's longevity.

I guess that for me, this little feature can't be compared to all the advantages CRT monitors have over LCD monitors.
So an LCD monitore might be a better optino if you really use this option, which means they are better for office work (especially since they look good and impress important buisnessman visitors =P), but for a gamer, I still don't think and LCD is a better option.

Cainehill said:And, another virtual of LCD monitors : a lot easier to fit several of them into a limited amount of space. My 19" CRT takes, mmm, 19" horizontal and 21 or 22" depth-wise - and it's a so-called "short-neck" design. The 19" LCD, even in "normal" landscape mode, is 15" wide (12" in portrait mode) and requires only about 7" depth.

I can support 3 monitors with my current graphics setup - but certainly can't fit 3 CRT monitors in my workspace.

The only thing that matters in this case is width (after all, its rather pointless putting monitors behind each other), and the width difference is rather marginal between different monitor types.
If I could fit two LCD monitors, I could fit two CRT monitors. (which I can't, because I rather like having speakers =P)

And I can support 3 monitors as well, though I'll need 1 that connects via S-Video, 1 that connect via DVI and 1 that connects via VGA(I think that's how the connection is called) =P
Well, actually I have a VGA to DVI converter, so I could do with 2 VGAs.

In any case I hardly have a reason to use more than one monitor...

[Cainehill]

Agrajag said:
I guess that for me, this little feature can't be compared to all the advantages CRT monitors have over LCD monitors.
So an LCD monitore might be a better optino if you really use this option, which means they are better for office work (especially since they look good and impress important buisnessman visitors =P), but for a gamer, I still don't think and LCD is a better option.

I'm a gamer too, and I find that reasonably high end LCD works well enough, even for graphics intensive stuff like Morrowind / Oblivion and things like that. Might be different if I wanted to play twitch-type games like FPS's, but I don't.

And if I do - I have a ... 7 year old Nokia that is one of those high-quality CRTs that SC mentioned. Sadly, it's getting old and starting to fade. Hmm. 22" Philips on Newegg for $439 might be a nice upgrade. ( SC is right - not many CRTs listed there anymore at all, and hardly any 19+ inch ones. )

[Agrajag]

Cainehill said:
I'm a gamer too, and I find that reasonably high end LCD works well enough, even for graphics intensive stuff like Morrowind / Oblivion and things like that. Might be different if I wanted to play twitch-type games like FPS's, but I don't.

Aaaah, but you can't beat playing Galactic Civilizations 2 on 17XX*13XX
And besides, with the 150$ you save by going for a CRT, you can buy a better GPU/CPU/RAM so that you can use the monitor's superior skills (such as the ability to play games on 1600*1200 ^_^)