Dom 3 Single-player - I don't get it..

[fahdiz]

Arralen said:
And concerning the replay value: I'm not sure if a campaign with a fixed order of scenarios really adds replay value. You would only get to play the same battles again if you start anew, wouldn't you?

That's exactly my feeling as well.

[NTJedi]

I suggested several times the editors from Heroes_3 and AgeofWonders:SM be used as blueprints for the editor in Dominions_3. Let's take a moment and pray.
If Events have been added into the game, events like we see in Heroes_3 and AgeofWonders:SM... then map makers could effectively make a campaign on a single map.

A campaign using multiple maps means transitioning data such as research, gold, gems, and possibly some troops with items between maps which I doubt we'll see. It certainly sounds nice... especially with a multiplayer campaign using multiple maps! Thus after a specific day research, gold, gems, and possibly some troops with items are moved for all players to the next map.
I doubt we'll see this feature... but it sure sounds nice.

[Endoperez]

Dominions maps already are too random for anything but totally pre-scripted maps to be feasible. If e.g. in first map you play early Ermor and become an empire, in the next game you have to reach a harbour-city and cross a sea to another land to escape the fall and cataclysm with small force of legionaires and no castle or pretender, the following, third map couldn't have Ermor in it. If Pythium is to destroy Ermor in the fourth, final, map/scenario, the possibility of Ermor being destroyed in the third map should be nullified. And Ermor can't just be made too strong to attack, because that would allow it to overpower everything.

Effectively, you can't have the nations own the same provinces in multiple games, so you'd have to either kill all existing nations in every scenario, or accept that something will change and limit the possibility of that as much as possible. However, very few scenarios have been made for DomII. It'd be nice to see some, but I doubt Illwinter will add any new features when the existing ones haven't been used that much. The ones I can remember are pre-set maps like Faerun that try to describe a pre-existing world, or those that try to make the AI more challenging.

[Gandalf Parker]

Hmmm I love a challenge.
OK lets see.... A package which includes 3 minorly edited maps and a campaign.exe to oversee things. It could be the same map with time changes (forest and swamp gives way into farmlands and plains?) or it could be a big map where sections of it are not playable (no neighbor commands) making 3 different sections of the same map only playable for that each ofthe 3 games.

Game 1:
Ermor (early age) is pitted against a bunch of AIs who are preset to give a fairly hard challenge. The Victory Points are turned on and the game is run with a scoredump switch. Ermor must do whatever it is the storyline says. Something that works in well with the changes they go thru to become mid age. Finding and rescuing the mages that teach them the advancements blah blah blah. Major victory points on that province.

The campaign.exe (hmm I could write this in BASIC Im pretty sure) is what you click on when you feel you have beaten game1. It examines the last scores.html that the game spit out to verify that you did accomplish the mission. It writes minor changes to the game 2 map (hmmm a mod file could be included in all this also but so far Im not coming up with a reason to).

Game 2:
along the same lines with the same god being used to play a game against the AIs on a harder setting but the game is now all Era 2 (mid age) nations. Ermor has advanced into the changes. Same basic thing, stay alive and accomplish whatever it is that turns Ermor mid-age into Ermor late-age (is that where all the undead show up?). Same god, go for the victory points. Some well designed province or province area where you select the native population, the magic sites, the guardian armies, all around the storyline theme. When you get them the game will quit declaring you the winner.

Game 3:
you again run the campaign.exe which finds the scores.html and verifies that you won (yes this can be cheated but who cares?). It modifies the .map file for game three. This time you are playing for all the marbles. All of the AI are on maximum setting and allied against you. No victory points its just a kill everyone else type of game.

Variants:
this sounds kinda hard to get thru. Maybe the campaign.exe could "see" who you defeated in each game and not include them in the next one. And each game could start everyone with a few more starting provinces. Of course for "reality" sake the maps would be best if all variables were removed such as locking in the populaton of province and what sites are there but thats only if the maps are designed to play the same area each time.

Also the last game might not be beatable if its all max AI allied against you (at least lets hope thats as hard as it sounds). But in the 2nd and 3rd games you could grant Ermor extra troops, some starting equipment, pre-researched spells.

If you "create" the god for the campaign (not unheard of in such things) then you could even advance them. Add particular magics and abilities. Hmmm I can even see where some of the gods might be advanced in other ways. If I did a Pangaea version I might have the Druid as game 1 pretender, and in game 2 it could be the green dragon which is the same druid with a form-change ability. For the Ermor one the pretender might start with earth and nature magics and gain starting magic in death and blood as the nation progresses thru its ages.

MAN my brain really cooks in the early hours doesnt it?
Gandalf Parker

[Daynarr]

Gandalf Parker said:
MAN my brain really cooks in the early hours doesnt it?
Gandalf Parker

[Alneyan]

Gandalf Parker said:
(hmmm a mod file could be included in all this also but so far Im not coming up with a reason to).

I'm thinking mods could work as a sort of scripted events, since the only other way around is to edit the game files themselves (not straightforward, and with unwanted side-effects).

So, you could ask the player to rerun the executable on turn 30, and check for the current state of the game. If your nation already owns a bunch of provinces and has a high income, life could become harder for you (say, troops suddenly become more expensive, or one troop cannot be recruited anymore, mages get weaker, etc). On the other hand, if you are doing poorly, you could find yourself with some support, perhaps from poor Man that has bitten the dust already.

It could also work the other way around, boosting AI nations as needed, again through the same "check the score dump" mechanism. You might even "transform" a nation that way, by replacing all its units, spells, and whatnot through a mod... well, except things like "no Dominion spread" or auto-summons.

[Endoperez]

Alneyan said:
.. well, except things like "no Dominion spread" or auto-summons.

Actually, there should be more things that can be changed [via mods] in Dom3. I think Mictlan's restricted dominion-spreading and Ulm's extra-resources in fortresses were mentioned, but I'm not sure.

[Gandalf Parker]

A game can be started with a preexex or postexec switch. A postexec bat file could run the checker program and swap in an appropriate mod. Id have to think abit on how that would work best but it could be done.

In fact, if you turn logging on and send it to a text file you could even look for references such as the players nation hitting a particular stage in the game. A research level or certain spells being cast or taking a certain province. I wonder how search results are recorded. Whether a certain site being found in a certain province could be a trigger

[NTJedi]

Endoperez said:
If Pythium is to destroy Ermor in the fourth, final, map/scenario, the possibility of Ermor being destroyed in the third map should be nullified. And Ermor can't just be made too strong to attack, because that would allow it to overpower everything.

Just because Ermor is destroyed in the first of four maps doesn't mean he can't exist in the next maps. You remove Ermor from one realm doesn't mean he's wiped off the entire world or galaxy. If Ermor does stay alive some of his commanders should carry over same as yours if you stay alive. Also even if your pretender dies and all your provinces are lost for one realm doesn't remove your existence and control from other maps or parts of the world.

Endoperez said:
It'd be nice to see some, but I doubt Illwinter will add any new features when the existing ones haven't been used that much.

I agree I doubt we'll see any of these new features, but they sure sound nice.

[Gandalf Parker]

Ive seen other games where the next level of the campaign started with something like "the vanquished god has retreated to a far land only to come back stronger and angrier". That could handle it (sloppily but oh well)