Oblivion

[Saber Cherry]

OG_Gleep said:
The complaint I have about Oblivion, and I had about Morrowind is that the ceiling is way too low as far as loot and monster tables are concered. I don't think they added any new armor or weapon types in Oblivion and that is just a shame.

No... but they did remove quite a few (spears, staves, crossbows, thrown) so at least it's not the same

I hit the "highest" weapon and armor options way before I was even close to being done with my character development. I am level 23 now, and should have a full suit of the top teir heavy armor soon, and have the best stock weapon available.

This is a terrible shame, and something I didn't expect at all! Fortunately, it is something that can be resolved by modders, since it's not an engine limitation. But having all the best gear early in the game would really bite. To me, it's similar to (but the inverse of) Blizzard's philosophy for World of Warcraft - expand the game by adding more content for level 60 characters, but never actually allow anyone to go beyond level 60. If I'm not improving my character by doing anything, it takes away incentive to do anything... but if you ever find a really cool item before level 60, chances are that you won't be allowed to use it until you're high enough in level that it's no longer cool. Like, say, until level 60.

Whether Diablo II is an action-RPG is irrelevant. It has a great system of item drops, that I wish more games would emulate - almost any piece of equipment you find can have random attributes, and (provided you're in a high-enough level area) there's always a chance of finding some awesome item that totally outclasses whatever you used before. And there were all kinds of effects, too, so it wasn't simply "Sword of +X" like in many games. Plus the gems (and runes, which I never used, as I had no exp. pack) allowed you to customize items...

Then WoW came along, with a completely inferior and boring item system. In perhaps the dumbest moment of Blizzard game design ever, they even decided that all equipment bought in stores should be incomparably worse than the crappiest things (at a similar level) you can find, yet be priced roughly 10x as much. So, nobody ever buys anything non-disposable from stores after about level 5.

For me, part of the fun of RPGs (both on and offline) is getting new "stuff". I love getting loot, looking in every container possible, and don't mind making multipe trips back to town just to make sure I got everything worthwhile. But with so few options, I will reach the ceiling for both weapons and armor in a couple more dungeon romps.....and I'm have only done the very first steps in Main quest.

Agreed, and disappointing.

Because I have access to every available skill, theres not much incentive for me to replay the game...

What? You've mastered every skill by level 23? Or am I misunderstanding something... since I thought you had to master a skill before you could unlock the top abilities.

Also, for such a big game, the monster table is surprisingly small. They should have had more "stuff" so that combat and exploring stay interesting as long as possible.

Also sad to hear. Monster mods with extra monsters tend to be horribly unbalanced, and they take way more work than equipment mods, too...

[OG_Gleep]

Saber Cherry said:

No... but they did remove quite a few (spears, staves, crossbows, thrown) so at least it's not the same

Hehe was more reffering to the material rather then the weapon itself "Iron Longsword" "Steel Longsword" etc.

Honestly its been so long, I didn't even notice those were missing. There should atleast be 3-4 more material types...at the minimum. I actually skipped glass entirely. I went from Dwarvish to Ebony. Haven't even seen a Glass Long/Short Sword. Have found plenty of daggers though.

If I'm not improving my character by doing anything, it takes away incentive to do anything... but if you ever find a really cool item before level 60, chances are that you won't be allowed to use it until you're high enough in level that it's no longer cool. Like, say, until level 60.

In a online game, I am actually driven to hit the cap so I can get on with the "cool stuff". That part doesn't bother me. But your right that something has to drive me. The cool stuff has to be there, be it uber loot, or PvP bonuses (Dark Age of Camelot, and now WoW). In SP games, the journey is exciting, from level 1 to level x. Instead of getting access to it in chunks ala Online games, in SP games it has to be rationed. Feels like I blew my wad a little too early.

Whether Diablo II is an action-RPG is irrelevant. It has a great system of item drops, that I wish more games would emulate....Then WoW came along, with a completely inferior and boring item system.....So, nobody ever buys anything non-disposable from stores after about level 5.

Ah but see, you made my point for me. It isn't irrelevant. While on paper Action, Strategy, Online, and Traditional RPGs might look smiliar the overall goals are different which defines what choices the developers make. In WoW, having a vibrant economy was important, in Diablo...making sure a player based economy flourishes wasn't a factor. Thats why you see a Diablo type item system in a lot of Action RPGs, and why its absent from MMO's. And want to ensure that an economy never sees the light of day? Make NPC Vendor equipment a viable choice for the player.

I agree with you 100% that for Action RPGs, there is no better loot system then Diablo's. But theres a reason its not the standard loot system for all RPG's.

The main flaw with the WoW system is it allows Ninja looters. That was my only complaint. Actually I was really impressed overall. The choices Blizzard made allowed the economy to be up, functional, and flourishing during the beta. Other games can't get one up years after going live.

Because I have access to every available skill, theres not much incentive for me to replay the game...

Saber Cherry said:What? You've mastered every skill by level 23? Or am I misunderstanding something... since I thought you had to master a skill before you could unlock the top abilities.

Hehe no, I ment that the choices I made during character creation really only effected what level my skills were when I started, not which skills I had access to. You aren't denied access to anything actually. Pure Warriors can join the mage guild, Pure Mages can join the warriors guild. Theres no real incentive for me to do this all over again. If I play a Thief for instance, I'll still pick locks, I'll just do it better then my sword loving-heavy armor-potion chugging-hardly ever use magic Mage.

Also sad to hear. Monster mods with extra monsters tend to be horribly unbalanced, and they take way more work than equipment mods, too...

Hehe we have been on opposite sides of this thread since the first day, but after all this I feel like I gave you more ammo to hate the game .

This game is far from perfect, but I do feel I've gotten my $50 (or whatever it was) worth of entertainment. And thats all anyone can ask for.