Siege Units

[Argitoth]

Siege units seem like a good idea to me. The only thing is that some of us don't care to use our imagination to see how it might work. The only problem I see would be the huge balance issues. On a further note: Bog Beast is a siege unit.

But one thing I'm concered about is the graphical side. There's three ways I can think of making the graphics work for a standard catapault.

1. Graphics act like arrows. They fly, fall, hit the ground, and that's it. Disadvantage: It ignores the fact that boulders roll.

2. Graphics act like a 1-round summon spell. Catapault shoots, boulder appears ontop of a square of units, boulder rolls (moves) one or two squears. Disadvantage: You don't get to see the boulders fly.

3. A combination of the two where the boulder acts like it has cast a targeting spell, but when it hits a target, a boulder appears as a 1-round summon spell. Disadvantage: Is it even possible? And then since it's treated as a spell, if you have 5 catapaults, won't battles take way longer?

[NTJedi]

Argitoth said:
Siege units seem like a good idea to me. The only thing is that some of us don't care to use our imagination to see how it might work.

Very true... I know that for sure. The key is game balance and using the options available to make the units interesting and worthy for sieges against fortifications.

Argitoth said:
The only problem I see would be the huge balance issues.

Yes the cost of the unit, its siege bonus and battlefield damage all must be taken into consideration. We don't want these units to be too powerful or too weak. If myself or someone else releases a Siege MOD adjustments can be made as time passes. If siege units are one of the easter egg features in Dominions3 then balance can be seen via patches.

Argitoth said:
But one thing I'm concered about is the graphical side. There's three ways I can think of making the graphics work for a standard catapault.

1. Graphics act like arrows. They fly, fall, hit the ground, and that's it. Disadvantage: It ignores the fact that boulders roll.

2. Graphics act like a 1-round summon spell. Catapault shoots, boulder appears ontop of a square of units, boulder rolls (moves) one or two squears. Disadvantage: You don't get to see the boulders fly.

3. A combination of the two where the boulder acts like it has cast a targeting spell, but when it hits a target, a boulder appears as a 1-round summon spell. Disadvantage: Is it even possible? And then since it's treated as a spell, if you have 5 catapaults, won't battles take way longer?

Well we'll have to see what options will exist within DOM_3... it may provide a 4th or 5th option. Based on the three listed above I would probably use option_1 or option_3. I'll give it more thought after I see what options Dominions_3 offers.

[Saber Cherry]

If the modding tools are sufficiently powerful, it should be possible for a high-cost Engineer unit to gain the "Summon Allies" command, that summons an immobile siege weapon. Sounds to me like a good compromise between abstract and concrete. The seige weapons should have enough upkeep to model several soldiers manning them and many noncombattants maintaining them. Hopefully Doms III will allow disbanding, but if not, the ranged ones would still be good on the defensive.

[DominionsFan]

I think the mod tools will be powerful enough to add siege type units for sure. The Doms2 modding ability was very good imo, and it will be even more powerful in Doms3 as we all know.

[NTJedi]

Saber Cherry said:
If the modding tools are sufficiently powerful, it should be possible for a high-cost Engineer unit to gain the "Summon Allies" command, that summons an immobile siege weapon. Sounds to me like a good compromise between abstract and concrete.

Yes that's one option. Since we're not getting a demo until after the game is released perhaps the developers could give a pre-copy of the modding documentation.

Saber Cherry said:
The seige weapons should have enough upkeep to model several soldiers manning them and many noncombattants maintaining them. Hopefully Doms III will allow disbanding, but if not, the ranged ones would still be good on the defensive.

I agree their upkeep will have to model several soldiers manning the siege engines. I ponder what the Modding and MapEdit documentation for DOM_3 will include that's new. It will be interesting to see how fortification types have been improved as well.

[Fate]

Obviously, a seige bonus has already been implemented, but what about the other effects of seige weapons? They were also used to kill defenders. Maybe some modelling of that could be included in-game? (maybe as a scalable ability, which does x damage to a random, possibly non-commader unit, every turn. Or acts like a certain # of arrows fired at a random unit).

[Endoperez]

I don't know if I'd like that. It would be possible, of course. Say, Flames from the Sky-like effect, 8 non-resistable armor-piercing damage to at max 50% of the defenders, defense allowed.

However, that would kill all mages, who shouldn't be on the walls. It'd be nice, if it was implemented properly, but having a poor implementation wouldn't be fun at all.

[Fate]

I think it might be fair if it didn't hit commanders (though then it would just make normal troops worse than they already are... Hmmm....)

[NTJedi]

Fate said:
Obviously, a seige bonus has already been implemented, but what about the other effects of seige weapons? They were also used to kill defenders. Maybe some modelling of that could be included in-game? (maybe as a scalable ability, which does x damage to a random, possibly non-commader unit, every turn. Or acts like a certain # of arrows fired at a random unit).

Depends on what's available via modding in DOM_3. Ideally I hope Dominions_3 will have or allow via modding the ability to create unique siege engines for each nation.

[Graeme Dice]

NTJedi said:
Depends on what's available via modding in DOM_3. Ideally I hope Dominions_3 will have or allow via modding the ability to create unique siege engines for each nation.

How many times do people have to tell you that Dominions 2 already has that capability before you believe it?