What's wrong with this battle?

[Graeme Dice]

magnate said:I knew fatigue lowered DEF, but I didn't know it lowered ATT as well - is it the same mechanic? -1 per 10 fatigue or something?

It's -1 per 20 fatigue, so your Nataraja had an attack of less than 20 versus a defense of more than 25. That kind of attack/defense disadvantage is extremely hard to hit through. I wouldn't have expected very many hits given only two rounds of combat.

The combination of AW not working on IDs and ATT reducing after fatigue from buffs makes an SC pretty unlikely to work.

This is how faulty information and rumours get started. Nobody has said anything that even suggests that there's evidence that astral weapon doesn't effect Ice Devils, and you're already posting it like it's a fact.

Which is ridiculous, since the IDs are nowhere near the most expensive summons, so why should they be the best SCs?

They aren't. Arch devils are certainly better given that they can cast phoenix pyre.

[Saber Cherry]

They aren't. Arch devils are certainly better given that they can cast phoenix pyre.

I think they're better, though it depends on the map and nation. Self-casting Quickness, the ability to go underwater, higher base protection, bonus protection in cold provinces, and no weakness to fire (versus 50% weakness to cold, for Arch Devils) make them extremely potent. Not so great for Abysia, though. Also, some people might prefer Fire Shield, but Breath of Winter can be used similarly, against non-undeads.

Neither of them are really as good as Tartarians, though, at 10D+20N each; the differences in HP, encumbrance, size (for trample), and magic skills are pretty major. Immortals such as Wraith Lords and Vampire Lords, and non-standard choices like Vastnessess can all be more effective in many situations, too.

[shovah]

a bunch of un-equiped vampire lords ar e amazing at harrasing the enemy as he trie to reinforce his main invasion (aslong as you stay in friendly dominions)

[magnate]

Graeme Dice said:

It's -1 per 20 fatigue, so your Nataraja had an attack of less than 20 versus a defense of more than 25. That kind of attack/defense disadvantage is extremely hard to hit through. I wouldn't have expected very many hits given only two rounds of combat.

No, but more than the IDs hitting me! (effective att 25 vs effective def ~38)

This is how faulty information and rumours get started. Nobody has said anything that even suggests that there's evidence that astral weapon doesn't effect Ice Devils, and you're already posting it like it's a fact.

Er, remind me who was the first person to suggest that AW didn't affect IDs? All I did was repeat Cainehill's theory. I assumed that nobody would take it as fact, since his suggestion was a few posts up in the same thread. If I had posted it in a different thread, I would have been more careful to note that it was merely a suggestion. It is probably wrong though - he did hit Cimejes for ~25 damage one time, so I guess it works.

They aren't. Arch devils are certainly better given that they can cast phoenix pyre.

It's by no means certain, as Saber Cherry has illustrated. Given that they come at 5/7 the cost an entire research level earlier, they're pretty near untouchable in a cost-benefit analysis.

My main problem, as Tien Chi, was no access to decent thugs or summonable SCs of any sort (apart from the paths on my pretender). You can eventually summon elemental royalty once you've managed to forge enough path boosters (elemental staff, air hat and bag, water bracelet, fire helmet and skull), but you're likely to be beaten to the punch there. With almost no access to death or blood you can't have wraiths or vampires. So it really calls for a totally different strategy, of troops backed up by mages with plenty of carefully used battle spells, but I just didn't get it right. In the army setup screen it looked like my mages were carefully protected inside a big square of high morale troops, but in the actual battle they were side by side so the mages got killed before they could do their work.

CC

[Manuk]

Theres a simple explanation. blood thorn got nerfed in the mod. it does 0 damage and strenght is not added. so is useless in combat.