Confused about Dom3 Release news

[tinkthank]

Hello!
I have been gone for some time, and by chance checked out the dom2 boards (referred by NTJedi for some info on an OT Oblivion thread), and by chance saw the news regarding the upcoming dom3 release.
On the one hand, I am happy for Illwinter that they have solidified their project and got what I hope is a decent contract with Shrapnel. Nice! I always like to support a nice indy company. Currently, I am happy with Stardock.
On the other hand, I am somewhat crestfallen after having read the official announcement, visited Illwinter's site (nothing there), and checked out everything Shrapnel says about dom3.
The main things seems to be the new races and the split in three eras. (Not really news, since we all knew this more than a year ago.) Since "more" is not really what I was looking for (certainly not "more races"), I was looking for what is new to dom3 vs dom2. The vast number of things to do is listed -- but all those things were part of dom2. Any image can be a map -- sounds familiar. New graphics were mentioned -- and the screenshots indicate that work was done on some effects and some background terrain effects, but the sprites look otherwise identical. (Who cares, we arent into Dominions for the graphics anyhow.) But what gameplay things are new? There is vague mention of only 3 elements that caught my eye: Less micromanagement, more streamlined interfaces, and better AI. Screenshots showed very familiar interfaces to me (the list of spells was in most parts identical), so I can hope there is more and better to come; I would love, however, to hear more about what will offer "less micro" other than the autotax feature mentioned. As to the AI -- how will it be better? The AI in dom2 was severely lacking (which isnt surprising, considering how complex the game is), but what have they done to change it? Considering that the basic gameplay seems to be identical to Dom2, and no patches for that have been released in the last year, it seems odd.
I took a brief look at the thousands and thousands of suggestions in the Wishlist thread, finding my own (methought: reasonable) ones, and am surprised to find none of these mentioned (with the exception of the inclusion of Indian-flavored nations). Perhaps many features will be included, and I will see.
Nevertheless, I am confused, since I thought the release news was intended to get people to pre-order the game. But since it is against my religion to spend over 50 dollars on an expansion pack -- and to me, dom3 looks to be a nice dom2 expansion pack -- , I cannot purchase this game without seeing a demo. So if people know more, how come they remain silent?
Is dom3 more than a dom2 expansion pack with more nations split up into 3 eras and better modability?

[Endoperez]

Depending on how much rebalancing has happened, the game could be very different. Late Era is supposed to have more emphasis on national units, so I quess Barbarian Kings will be there, Return of Raptors, probably Ulm (maybe Iron Faith?)... all of these are regarded as weaker nations. I hope that means that there will be more nations in total, AND more nations that are viable to play (in their own era, at least).

Random map generator could also be a big thing, depending on how good maps it makes. We haven't seen any results from that, though, so it's hard to say anything about that.

There's at least one other thread that was started on the same ground (Feeling a bit... so so), you might want to read that.

[Gandalf Parker]

What is seems you are bothered by is that the games feature list hasnt been released yet. And that the game went on pre-order before such a list was posted. That doesnt seem so unusual to me. I know of games with new versions that went on pre-order years before any discussion of what would be provided.

I always considered that to be what a pre-order was. "Yes I like your game and believe in you enough to provide money in advance to help the new version come into existence". Ive been burned on some (Im still waiting for Stars Supernova and VGA Planets 4) but its never bothered me.

[Ironhawk]

tinkthank said:
So if people know more, how come they remain silent?

Beta testers usually sign an NDA which prevents them from discussing what they are working on so we cant hope for any info there. Only source really is from Shrapnel via advertising or the devs posting here.

[Gandalf Parker]

Non-Disclosure Agreements.
It wouldnt be much help anyway. Discussing parts of a game which is still being changed.

Thats already happening over in some beta forum. And the Dom2 forum is still discussing what they would like to see in Dom3. All useful stuff

[Chazar]

I feel similar: The wishlist contained so many nice ideas, more than could be implemented for sure, but at least knowing that a few of them made it into the game would be nice:

Currently it seems that its just more stuff of what we already had and the removal of flaws of the game interface (i.e. less micromanaging). This sure is nice, but it feels poor. I also disagree with Gandalf here: Sure, the game is not yet done, but I would not expect major changes to be introduced at this stage? So if there are major changes in gameplay, why are they invisible in the screenshots? Deliberate?

As "Major Changes" I would regard things like proper terrain effects or obstacle on the battle grounds, a new unit attribute, a new resource, proper modelling of the different native races within a province and their migration, new buildings with a proper function, a renewed yet manageable battle setup, etc. ...so anything which directly alters gameplay. Something that is not straightforward to guess and what would make me curious!

I am aware that there are major changes which might not be visible in the screenshots, like an overhauled resitances system putting an end to too easily achieving 100% invulnerability, or improved battle command control, so lets hope for something like that.

Sure, a streamlined interface is already well worth enough for me to order Dom!!! eventually, so this is moot anyway...

[Endoperez]

Chazar said:
As "Major Changes" I would regard things like proper terrain effects or obstacle on the battle grounds, a new unit attribute, a new resource, proper modelling of the different native races within a province and their migration, new buildings with a proper function, a renewed yet manageable battle setup, etc. ...so anything which directly alters gameplay. Something that is not straightforward to guess and what would make me curious!

I don't like your examples, but I agree that the game needs something that will make us curious about it, curious to find out what has changed, and curious about the new possibilities.

I am aware that there are major changes which might not be visible in the screenshots, like an overhauled resitances system putting an end to too easily achieving 100% invulnerability, or improved battle command control, so lets hope for something like that.

Sure, a streamlined interface is already well worth enough for me to order Dom!!! eventually, so this is moot anyway...

Heh, I started writing this response by trying to prove your points wrong, and then realized that it's only your examples I'm arguing against, not the actual message.

[Chazar]

My examples were bad, and just made up on the spot...(EDIT: see wishlist-posts for serious suggestions )but according to Post#422808I still get one of them, a new unit attribute:

* Age fix for animals losing their rider.

(EDIT: Hmm, maybe its not a stat but just an affliction...)
Strange though that it is not shown in the screenshot showing the unit information for an Ashigaru. This doesnt speak for transparency...

However, what I meant in my previous post was that there should be something new in Dom!!! which appeals to our curiosity...

Now I need to take a closer look at this progress list, cheers...

[Endoperez]

Chazar said:
(Edit: Hmm, maybe its not a stat but just an affliction...)
Strange though that it is not shown in the screenshot showing the unit information for an Ashigaru. This doesnt speak for transparency...

However, what I meant in my previous post was that there should be something new in Dom!!! which appeals to our curiosity...

Now I need to take a closer look at this progress list, cheers...

Actually, that has been mentioned earlier, and that indeed is a new stat.

From one of the dev diaries:

After taking a look at the latest progress in Dominions III, I decided that this months most enjoyable achievement has to be the age. We had a good time adding the
new age stat to units. The age adds a nice RPG feeling to your characters who will now age one year every winter. Different monster have different lifespans of course.

So don't grow too attached to your monkeys, they don't live very long.

The aging system integrates quite nicely into the game system and I think it can result in some new strategies or at least some hilarious situations.

/Johan

[Chazar]

Yeah, I actually do recall a thread discussing it, too. I think some were concerned that it makes ordinary troops even more uninteresting...
However, I do not fear so and I like it...