LOL v1.20 patch

Sammas · #1 June 7th, 2006, 03:42 AM

Demo users playing online - sweet.

Ogre balance? Why so? I don't think they were unbalanced for multiplayer.

Combat Wombat · #2 June 7th, 2006, 03:47 AM

They were a bit over powered in addition to the other good orc units

Hiro_Antagonist · #3 June 7th, 2006, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Sammas said:
Demo users playing online - sweet.

Ogre balance? Why so? I don't think they were unbalanced for multiplayer.

Yeah, our beta testers (for the patch) were finding that the Ogres were consistantly winning battles. When I tried it out myself, I found the same thing, and when I did direct stat comparisons, the Ogre was overbalanced.

Which isn't too surprising, considering at one point I simply lowered the Ogre's price by $900 (from $6500 to $5600) without changing any other stats because he wasn't being used enough and his price was so high that nobody could buy him. So this change essentially fixes what I 'broke' then.

-Hiro_Antagonist

PhilD · #4 June 7th, 2006, 02:03 PM

Basically, Sammas' usual point is that THE over-strong unit is the Legendmaker. Which I'm not sure I agree with - only, Sammas has so much experience playing Gnomes (and not only using Legendmakers) that he's pretty hard to beat with many races, and basically unbeatable with some.

The Ogre was a scary thing, but the -1 Armor will severely weaken it. I'm looking forward to playing the patch, though (hey, who am I kidding? I'm starved for online play; if the demo becomes playable online, I might get a few more games a week at least)

Hiro_Antagonist · #5 June 7th, 2006, 03:35 PM

Well, the thing with Legendmakers is that they're pretty versatile, and yes, they are generally very strong against 1st-tier units.

From my experience, if Legendmakers seem unbalanced, it's because they're either being used very well, or not being countered properly. (But then again, that's the case with most units. =)

Their main benefits:
-Good Range
-Infinite Retaliation (deadly when combined with good range.)
-Eager

These abilities are certainly good, and they're intended to make up for the Legendmaker's otherwise low stats for its cost.

Low-end units generally have a hard time against them, but there are two very effective trumps against Legendmakers:
-Units with high skill
-Units that prevent retalation (through Paralyze, Peaceful, or effects like Bomb or Martial Arts)

Archers and Snipers can also get free shots against Legendmakers if they attack at range 4 or 5.

So every race (except gnomes themselves) do have effective trumps against Legendmakers. The Arcatta probably have the hardest time, but fully-healed Archmages can bring them down fast, and the Apprentice's Waterlogged ability is especially useful on Legendmakers.

Cheers,
-Hiro_Antagonist

Sammas · #6 June 8th, 2006, 03:05 AM

Well, my issue is mainly with races - Gnomes are really strong because of 3 good units - gardeners, legendmakers, and wolf riders.

Orcs have Raiders and Mystics, but I've never considered the Ogre to be overpowered. I mean, you can knock out Legendmakers with paralyse/peaceful etc, but you can do the same to Ogres, and you're only negating $3600 compared to $5600, AND Legendmakers can still just go and buff friendlies..

Unless Phil disagrees, I think the Ogre nerf is really undeserved, but I guess we'll find out. I certainly think that Orcs will need to win through Raider/Mystics + other race units.

Pyros · #7 June 8th, 2006, 06:40 AM

Sammas,

I would be happy to play you a game, my Orcs against your Gnomes with the old settings.

Maybe then you might have seen why the Orcs were not so easy to defeat.

Actually the Orc strategy was based on the combunation of "some Raiders and the 3 Ogres"!

cheers,
Pyros

PhilD · #8 June 8th, 2006, 03:41 PM

Sure, if you can field 3 Ogres, the Legendmakers will have a hard time. But by the time you've got them (even with the 1.10 price), the Legendmakers are all over the place, and there are Gardeners on Gnome cities, meaning the ones with the money to field the Ogres are actually the Gnomes.

Remember - LM only costs 3 cities if they have Gardeners in them. Plus, as you can buy multiple LMs from a single city if you have the gold, you can afford to leave Gardeners on cities.

The main Gnome weakness is, they have no damage ability while expanding, since they're usually using Gardeners. Rush them and kill some, or force them to buy some other units - this will slow them down. Of course, Orcs have the best tier 1 unit in the game (huge HPs, poison, and actually cheap while expanding), so that's how you can beat Gnomes.

As for using Archmages as a strategy to kill Legendmakers... the thing is, LM always get first shot since they move on the turn you buy them. After that, AM is not fully healed anymore - so what you need is AM plus Apprentice, and by then you're dealing with extra high costs.