Dismounted PanzerGrenadiers coy.

wulfir · #1 June 12th, 2006, 11:58 AM

Quote:

chuckfourth said:
The game is not based on squads. There are just a lot of squads in the game.

Oh, I'd say it's based on squads all right.

Quote:

chuckfourth said:So as you cant actually present any reason why we cant have the 6 man squads I guess its because you dont like the idea?

I don't like the idea of half-squads much either.
I sometimes use Panzeraufklarer sections to represent depleted German squads. They don't have much staying power compared to full-squads...

Smersh · #2 June 12th, 2006, 02:09 PM

I had a sort-ev

related discussion about smg squads being spilt up into 5 man tank desant squads. the reason being that they could also be mounted on light tanks.

Of course that was already present in the game, and this one is about adding a half-squad formation.

My two cents:
I personally don't like the idea of half-squads either. although these panzer infantry squad was carried by two vehicles did they not form up into a full squad after-dismounting? because in reality too, half-squads have no staying power. I can't think of a way u could model a squad reforming (after dismounting) using the sp engine.

DRG · #3 June 12th, 2006, 11:16 PM

We are looking into the PzGren issue but we will NOT be creating half squads to fit into vehicles. It's not going to happen. The idea of split squads reforming was discussed and rejected years ago ( remember... we've been doing this since 1998 ). The Motorized units will have AWD transport added when the patch is issued but they will retain their "standard" size and the transport carry capacity will be altered to allow that. It's a compromise. It's sometimes necessary. I will be going on vacation soon and when I get back we will finish up the patch then take most of the rest of the summer off and start work on the revision to WinSPMBT sometimes in August or September.

Don

chuckfourth · #4 June 13th, 2006, 04:39 AM

Hi DRG
Thanks for your consideration and enjoy your holiday!
Regards Chuck.

Mobhack · #5 June 13th, 2006, 11:40 AM

Also chuck, we have a sub forum for TO&E queries.

In future, please post TO&E queries in that sub-forum.

Cheers
Andy

chuckfourth · #6 June 13th, 2006, 04:37 AM

Hi Smersh
Correct they would have returned to the full squad no doubt, but with 2 LMG per section they perform prettty well on there own as well. Though they cannot be "recombined" playing them both in the same hex is a reasonable approximation, they get twice as much return fire but also twice as much suppression.
Best Regards Chuck

chuckfourth · #7 June 13th, 2006, 04:32 AM

Hi wulfir
Well yes and no, you shouldnt compare a half squad to a full squad, you need to compare 2 half squads to a full squad. I believe a squad suffers pinning once it has lost half its members. So one 12 man squad pins after losing 7 men two 6 man sqads pin after losing 4 men each so 8 men. Also if they work in adjacent squares you have twice as much return fire to anyone that fires at them. So maybe 2 half squads less fragile than one full squad?
Best regards Chuck.

Smersh · #8 June 13th, 2006, 04:37 AM

yes, but you would only need to take a few casualties before becoming pinned , routed or destroyed. also did they carry 2 lmgs, each squad section. or would one squad get a lmg and another just rifles. It becomes in-practical. more reason why I don't like half-squads.

chuckfourth · #9 June 13th, 2006, 07:43 AM

Hi Smersh
They need to take 4 casualties before becomming pinned. but there are 2 of them, so 8 alltogether, one more than the single squad.
Thats the thing with the early motorised grenadiers they actually had 2 LMGs so makes the squad very easy to halve.
Best Chuck.

narwan · #10 June 13th, 2006, 10:43 AM

Quote:

chuckfourth said:
Hi wulfir
Well yes and no, you shouldnt compare a half squad to a full squad, you need to compare 2 half squads to a full squad. I believe a squad suffers pinning once it has lost half its members. So one 12 man squad pins after losing 7 men two 6 man sqads pin after losing 4 men each so 8 men. Also if they work in adjacent squares you have twice as much return fire to anyone that fires at them. So maybe 2 half squads less fragile than one full squad?
Best regards Chuck.

You're wrong. Damaged squads MAY suffer from suppression due to these losses which MAY result in them becoming pinned. Doesn't have to be half either. Unit experience/morale is what matters most, not absolute percentage of losses. Which you should have known if you're as experienced in this game as you claim to be.

Narwan