My Mictlan strategy: okay, but needs work

[Frostmourne27]

Ummm... Doesn't spread? Mictlan God, and their temples don't spread dominion, but Blood Sacrifices do, and I think prophets and juggernaughts do. I'm not sure if their capitol does. Mictlan probably wont be winning through dominion killing, but blood sacrificing is powerful enough to make your dominion 'safe' from enemy dominion, and to get your scale benefits (except perhaps buggy growth 3) I certainly find that I can do ok in dominion terms, and I think thats a fairly common sentiment, though if victory was set to dominion I probably wouldn't play Mictlan.

[BigJMoney]

...and that's what I'm hopefully going to prove wrong. I'm telling you, the numbers say that Mictlan is the best possible late game Dominion spreader, bar-none. With the capability of having at least 3 temples per province (more with a better economy and magic items, but I'm trying to be conservative), I think it's just waiting to be discovered. It's funny; when I first read about Mictlan after buying this game a good while ago, I immediately thought, "Wow, the purpose of this Nation is purely for spreading Dominion." I was very surprised to see that everyone's strategy with them had nothing to do with Dominion killing.

Of course, the difficult part is making it to that late game in a position where you can win.

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PS -- According to the Dominion Spreading Bible, the prophet does not spread Dominion for Mictlan. He'd have to make sacrifices, too. My guess is that Juggs don't, either.

[Agrajag]

Bear in mind that to "have 3 temples per province" you'll also need to blood hunt every* province, and set the taxes to minimal in every* province.
The gratitious blood sacrifices would also be probably better spent on uberkilling mass murdering demons, or maybe a soul contract or a hundred...

Me, I'd rather have one Devil every turn than 40 temple checks.

* - well... most.

[shovah]

Actally your wrong, any-one, with enough of an economy can outspread mictlan because of 1 little fact: They can have multiple priests working per province. I agree they caan spread dominion well but, imo other races do it better (and cheaper)

[Ygorl]

But priests can only raise dominion up to a small positive level, and not nearly as effectively as temples (or blood sacrifices). From my own (limited, certainly) experience, a Mictlan nation with a medium-dominion pretender can push dominion just as effectively as anyone else - and if you made it a priority, with a high-dominion pretender and jade knives, it would be pretty astonishing. It also wouldn't be that expensive. Spending 50 or even 100 blood slaves (if you have a *massive* frontier) a turn isn't a big deal for late-game Mictlan; you're probably making 20+ per province your hunting in, so you can easily have plenty more for those devils etc.
Is 100 temple checks better than 14 extra devils? Maybe not, but depending on the circumstances...

[shovah]

Yes, they can push up there with the big boys, i was simply pointing out (as a counter to BigJ's post) that even at full force they can be out pushed.

[Frostmourne27]

Isn't the dominion produced by preaching unable to spread to nearby provinces? If thats the case Mictlan might be better - sacrificing/temple checks can spread it to nearby provinces.

Spending 50 or even 100 blood slaves (if you have a *massive* frontier) a turn isn't a big deal for late-game Mictlan; you're probably making 20+ per province your hunting in, so you can easily have plenty more for those devils etc.

Am I missing something here? AFAIK Mictlan is no better than anyone elese at blood hunting. They have blood mages of course, but Abysia is just as good. Granted, ulm isn't as good, but I don't think mictlan has a bonus to blood hunting do they? Other thatn a bigger incentive that is.

[BigJMoney]

shovah said:
Actally your wrong, any-one, with enough of an economy can outspread mictlan because of 1 little fact: They can have multiple priests working per province. (and cheaper)

Do not take this as an offense, because it's purely surprise. I'm very surprised you don't know one of the most basic aspects of the game. Priests do not spread dominion; they increase it within their current province only. Not just that, but they can only raise it to a point equal to their priest level (plus temple bonus). Thus, only stealthy priests ever have the power to take your dominion into enemy territories. Even then, 10 holy2 stealth priests would have less of a chance of spreading dominion than 1 Mictlan holy2 priest performing a blood sacrifice for a god with 10 Dominion. This is because 1 level 10 Temple check (sacrifice) is better than 10 level 2 preach checks that have to fight against enemy dominion. In fact, if the enemy dominion is 8 or higher, level 2 priests cannot even lower it.

However, Graeme brings up a valid point. Even though Mictlan has the best potential for utilizing blood sacrifices, the fact that two other nations can make blood sacrifices plus have the normal dominion spread makes it seem less appealing. I'll look into those other nations very soon, actually. What I'll be comparing between these nations is a three-part economy: Blood, Priests and Time.

This thread has turned interesting.

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[BigJMoney]

Agrajag said:
Bear in mind that to "have 3 temples per province" you'll also need to blood hunt every* province, and set the taxes to minimal in every* province.

I'm not concerned here, because I've already proved to myself in my current game that this is not reality. I currently "have ~1.5 temples per province" and I only blood hunt in territories that do not make me gold. I also only hunt with 2 hunters in each of those territories. I am slightly positive in my bloodflow surplus. In the provinces I hunt, I have taxes set to 50 (which I could set to zero, I don't care) and usually do not need patrols. Don't forget this is why I took Order3, Luck3.

If this can be true for a dozen provinces, I believe it will also hold out for the end game if/when I have many more. At that point, I hope to "turn on the switch", and go for level 3 priests in every province. At that point, I will not use gold for anything ever again, hopefully.

Sorry to double post, but I had a few things to reply to. It's just easier for me to focus this way.

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[Agrajag]

BigJMoney said:
At that point, I will not use gold for anything ever again, hopefully.

There is upkeep to take into consideration.