The Demo

[Meglobob]

Today is a new day...

...so any chance of a demo?

Pretty, pretty please...

[JaydedOne]

Don't I wish.

Hey, while we're talking wishful thinking, Shrapnel could make the game available for download for those who've already pre-ordered.

And perhaps someone will buy me a pony too. *grin*

[Gandalf Parker]

They might make the demo available for download (eventually) but that isnt as easy to do for a game. I wouldnt hold my breath for that.

[DominionsFan]

JaydedOne said:
Don't I wish.

Hey, while we're talking wishful thinking, Shrapnel could make the game available for download for those who've already pre-ordered.

And perhaps someone will buy me a pony too. *grin*

It won't happen. Tim Brooks [president of Shrapnel] has posted this like 2 weeks ago on Quarter to Three:

"Forgive me for interrupting but I thought I'd try to explain our Gold process, our distribution policies and our thoughts on manuals.

First off let me say thanks to everyone here for supporting the Dominions series, Illwinter Games and Shrpnel Games. Even those who blasted us. I would much rather you speak of Shrapnel in a positive tone, but speaking of us is the important thing. How truly sad it would be if we didn't generate any conversation! So blast away if you must...

The overriding theme of the earlier posts here is the whole digital distribution model and whether it is better than our model of physical product. We are not opposed to distributing digitally (and we do so with many games now), but we do like to give our customers and fans a choice. We do enough physical product with games where we offer both choices to know there is a huge contingent out there that wants that CD and printed manual. So I doubt that our philosphies will change to a great extent any time soon. And with some games, those requiring an in depth manual to understand the intricacies of the game, it just doesn't make sense to us to offer both products. These manuals are usually huge and thus expensive to develop and produce and to recover our costs we need them to sell. And let's face it, we probably don't lose many sales (sure some impulse buys, but how many are we talking about on a very targeted product?) on these games that are offered as just physical product. If someone really wants the game they will buy it.

Plus, there is the bonus of making things tougher on the pirates. We get weekly - not monthly, not twice a month - but several requests every week through customer support where someone says we shipped them the cd, but did not ship the manual (or the really funny ones where they say the got the game at their local Electronics Boutigue and there was no manual in the box). And could we please send them the manual. Well, those who bought Dominions II know that the CD is shrinkwrapped inside the manual. So, if you got the CD, you got the manual. And we don't distribute through traditional retailers...

Now, on to the issue I want it now and our Gold process. First off, as Tom has pointed out, alot of the timing issues aren't under our control. Printers do a fine business, just as CD duplicators do. We have to be fit into their existing schedules and that is beyond our control. Now having said that, here is how we arrived at the October 2nd date (and why you wouldn't get the game any quicker if you could download it):

The manual is huge - it will probably come in at 200-220 pages or so - and is being written by Bruce Geryk, who you all probably know or at least know of. The manual couldn't be completed until we had Gold code as Tom has mentioned. Now that it is almost ready (we should get it early next week), we then must edit and format it and give it back to Bruce to work some additional magic on, and then another round of editing before it is ready for the printers. In all honestly we are looking at a 2 week process before we have a completed manual. Now, here is the part no one has mentioned. Once we have the completed manual, we now have to get the review copies off to the mags and sites that want to review the game. These review opportunities are an important part of marketing the game. The reviewers need at least two weeks (they really want longer, but 2-3 weeks is all we will give them) once we get them the Gold copy. Luckily, since it is a physical game, we can use this 2-3 week downtime to get the CDs pressed, the manuals printed and the game packaged (shrinkwrapped). And now we are at October 2nd and are ready to ship the game to those who have ordered it.

But, even if we had a downloadable version (which we don't), it would still require the same time frame. So, you would still be looking at October 2nd.

Some may ask, well why announce Gold so early then? You're talking about the game aren't you? <wink>

Thanks for listening,

Tim Brooks
President
Shrapnel Games, Inc."

[JaydedOne]

How quickly I forget. I remember reading that post. Perhaps I blotted it out of memory in favor of the above-mentioned wishful thinking.

[rabelais]

Hmmm. I think I'll start a strat review site, just to get an early copy.

Anyone know why black steel helmets only improve my wyrm's prot by 2 each? Is it a balance mod thing?

18 is pretty good, but I was a little surprised/disappointed.


Rabe

[BigJMoney]

I never read that post originally, but my gut feeling was correct. Pirating did play at least some hand in the desire to only print the manual, rather than create a PDF. I am horrified to see that they got such lousy requests on a weekly basis, though. That's disgusting. It causes me to wonder what should happen if my Dominions II manual should finally kick the bucket. How many loops would I have to jump through to get a replacement, even if I am willing to pay a few $$?

One promising piece of information I am gleaning from this, however, is that none of the above necessitates that a demo cannot be ready some time before/around shipping time. I am in a thread about the demo, right? The two week time frame for game reviews, CD pressing, manual printing, etc. could also be used as demo creation time. Whether Illwinter are going to push themselves that hard to get a demo out is another story, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.

@rabe
Interesting place for your query, but my understanding is that creatures with natural protection get diminished returns from wearing armor. There is a formula for it, look around on the boards. Heck, it might even be in the manual. I think this includes protection bonuses you get from some spells/items. Barksin and invulnerability come to mind.

=$=

[Wick]

rabelais said:Anyone know why black steel helmets only improve my wyrm's prot by 2 each? Is it a balance mod thing?
Rabe

See section 7.13 of Liga's Manual Addendum for formula or, since the link seems to be broken:

"If a units has both natural protection and armor, to calculate the protection values you have to:

Pb = base protection, intrinsic, from stone skin etc. Pa = protection from armor. Pt = total protection. Pb and Pa are always restricted to 40 or less.

Pt=Pb+Pa -(Pa*Pb)/40

So a unit with 10 intrinsic protection and a total of 18 in equipment armor would have an effective armor of: 10+18-(10*18)/40 = 28-4.5 = 23.5, rounded up to 24.

[Zen]"

So the maximum protection possible in the game is 0 natural and the Monlith Armor (30), Barrier (7), Black Steel Helm (3), Krupp's Bracers (4), and Bracers (2) = 46. Oh, +18 for Crystal Shields in the other three hands, if there is a four hander with no protection.

[Gandalf Parker]

I dont think this was done on purpose but I think its great that the Space Empires V demo came out already. Its going to make the Dom3 demo look great. Of course Dom3 cant please everyone so there is bound to be discussions about what people feel should or should not have been "fixed" in their opinion. But the SEV demo is getting much more flak than I think the Dom3 one will. Good timing even tho Im sure it was accidental.