Demo Guide to Kailasa

[Nerfix]

No problem, I should put my Atlantis and Agartha guides there someday.

[dirtywick]

I'd like to read that! I'm having trouble getting Atlatis rolling myself.

[Frostmourne27]

I'm curious as to why both of your example pretenders are awake. Some pretender designs that I have considered/tryed (since I'm stuck with the bloody effing demo - where is the mailman!?!?!) are imprisonned bless god - you can go prety crazy, especially if you settle for sub-optimal scales. Turmoil 2, Sloth 3, Heat 3, Luck 2, Dom Strength 7, Phoenix with Fire 9, Air 7 (Air shield is great, since Yavanas have to armour to speak of) Nature 6 (Regneration is fun!) Admitedly, I wouldn't play that in a multiplayer game, but it's tons of fun for single player. Higher difficulty computers can do quite well against it, since the scales aren't too great (for better multiplayer/more tradiotal style you could swap turmoil and luck for order and misfortune) I feel that a powerfull bless is incredibly important for Kalisa. I usually use nature, air, fire or water. Also note that dragons are considered to be abjectly useless. They are same as stock Dom2, and really alost certainly not owrth it, except for early expansion. Since you will want a high dominion strength to build lots of sacreds, they are especially bad, since dominion, like magic, increases in cost exponentially. I HATE dragons, they are so cliché. even if they were good, I wouldn't take one, so I may not be spot on about their worth, but I think I'm fairly close.

[dirtywick]

Frostmourne27 said:
I'm curious as to why both of your example pretenders are awake. Some pretender designs that I have considered/tryed (since I'm stuck with the bloody effing demo - where is the mailman!?!?!) are imprisonned bless god - you can go prety crazy, especially if you settle for sub-optimal scales. Turmoil 2, Sloth 3, Heat 3, Luck 2, Dom Strength 7, Phoenix with Fire 9, Air 7 (Air shield is great, since Yavanas have to armour to speak of) Nature 6 (Regneration is fun!) Admitedly, I wouldn't play that in a multiplayer game, but it's tons of fun for single player. Higher difficulty computers can do quite well against it, since the scales aren't too great (for better multiplayer/more tradiotal style you could swap turmoil and luck for order and misfortune) I feel that a powerfull bless is incredibly important for Kalisa. I usually use nature, air, fire or water. Also note that dragons are considered to be abjectly useless. They are same as stock Dom2, and really alost certainly not owrth it, except for early expansion. Since you will want a high dominion strength to build lots of sacreds, they are especially bad, since dominion, like magic, increases in cost exponentially. I HATE dragons, they are so cliché. even if they were good, I wouldn't take one, so I may not be spot on about their worth, but I think I'm fairly close.

I went with an awake dragon for precisely the reason you stated: Early expansion. The demo is only 40 turns max and it can effectively double your expansion speed and it's easy to put to F9 so it's a big research boost (18 points) in the beginning if you want that instead. On Indy 7 I find that you could take a small risk and attack on turn one if you want as there's not many indys that can take a dragon, they're pretty tough with no gem investment. Initial dominion is a bit of a problem, however with the scales I have set building temples is pretty easy with spare cash after a few turns.

I actually just got my full copy today, so I might rethink the pretender for a longer game, but the dragon isn't too bad. You don't have to trash your scales or leave it dormant or imprisoned to get a decent awake pretender with a good bless that can research or attack with low risk as needed immediately. Later in the game you can shape change it into a mage with all slots and a heck of a lot of hit points if you want. I don't think they're as bad as people make them out to be. Especially with a 40 turn cap.

Your suggestions aren't bad either, they're certainly an option. I wanted to keep it as basic as possible though as it's written for new players mostly who are having trouble understanding the game and a bless strategy that gives them a hard time fielding troops because of bad scales would, I feel, give them a tougher time.

[Nerfix]

dirtywick said:
I'd like to read that! I'm having trouble getting Atlatis rolling myself.

It can be found here:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...b=5&o=&fpart=1

Warriors of the Deep are great unless you face MR negates spells. Shamblers of the Deep can be great also. But they have really weak MR. So keep that in mind.

[dirtywick]

Another good link, thanks.

[Saxon]

This nation seems to be all about missiles. I have put together a pretender with fire and air and plan to research up to Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide. The national mages are not well set up for those spells, thus the pretender with those paths.

You could get a lucky random, then a forged item and Phoenix Pyre and the Air equivalent, but that would come fairly late in the game. That is why I am counting on a pretender who can back up at least one army with the spells.

What are people’s thoughts on this idea, a powerful missile force made up of cheap archers that hit all the time with flaming missiles? Any other ideas for boosting their power?

Also tied to this nation, let me ask for thoughts on a related issue. My immediate neighbor Helheim, who have troops with good defense and protection, as well as shields, if memory serves. They are very good at dealing with missile fire and deal with my infantry rather well, rapidly moving on to the archers. Until I get Flaming Arrows, how do I deal with the heavy amour nations?

As a final note, I look forward to seeing the monkeys throw sticks and stones with Wind Guide and Flaming Arrows! Sure, it is not sensible, but it is such a cool idea!

[Endoperez]

Saxon said:
This nation seems to be all about missiles. I have put together a pretender with fire and air and plan to research up to Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide. The national mages are not well set up for those spells, thus the pretender with those paths.

You could get a lucky random, then a forged item and Phoenix Pyre and the Air equivalent, but that would come fairly late in the game. That is why I am counting on a pretender who can back up at least one army with the spells.

What are people’s thoughts on this idea, a powerful missile force made up of cheap archers that hit all the time with flaming missiles? Any other ideas for boosting their power?

Also tied to this nation, let me ask for thoughts on a related issue. My immediate neighbor Helheim, who have troops with good defense and protection, as well as shields, if memory serves. They are very good at dealing with missile fire and deal with my infantry rather well, rapidly moving on to the archers. Until I get Flaming Arrows, how do I deal with the heavy amour nations?

As a final note, I look forward to seeing the monkeys throw sticks and stones with Wind Guide and Flaming Arrows! Sure, it is not sensible, but it is such a cool idea!

Helheim does actually have nice protection for EA. Prot 12 is good for EA, and they have both shields AND mirror image effect from Glamour. Someone'll probably tell you that Helheim is overpowered and scary and will kill you whatever you do, but actually that only happens if you play against one of the more skilled players.

If you click on the random, you'll notice that neither Yakshas or Yakshinis can get Air or Fire random, only one of Water, Earth, Astral and Nature. Some of their national summons come with Air. Kinnara is the first one IIRC, a flying A2H2 or H3 mage or so. You'll have more troubles getting Fire.

Phoenix Power is the Fire booster. Phoenix Pyre has altogether different use... Storm Power, the air booster, only works during Storms which hamper missiles, so going that rout won't actually give you anything.

[dirtywick]

Saxon said:
This nation seems to be all about missiles. I have put together a pretender with fire and air and plan to research up to Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide. The national mages are not well set up for those spells, thus the pretender with those paths.

You could get a lucky random, then a forged item and Phoenix Pyre and the Air equivalent, but that would come fairly late in the game. That is why I am counting on a pretender who can back up at least one army with the spells.

What are people’s thoughts on this idea, a powerful missile force made up of cheap archers that hit all the time with flaming missiles? Any other ideas for boosting their power?

Also tied to this nation, let me ask for thoughts on a related issue. My immediate neighbor Helheim, who have troops with good defense and protection, as well as shields, if memory serves. They are very good at dealing with missile fire and deal with my infantry rather well, rapidly moving on to the archers. Until I get Flaming Arrows, how do I deal with the heavy amour nations?

As a final note, I look forward to seeing the monkeys throw sticks and stones with Wind Guide and Flaming Arrows! Sure, it is not sensible, but it is such a cool idea!

One way to deal with them is to cast spells that destroy their armor and hold them in place. Armor of Achilles and later Destruction should help your arrows land more often, and Earth Grip and Later Earth Meld, as well as Tangle Vines, Vine Arrow, Sleep, and Sleep Cloud will pin them down. You might also consider Mind Burning them too, that ignores armor. Bringing Bandar Archers who have long bows will make the battles shorter too.

But, to make the Flaming Arrows/Wind Guide you'd probably have to design a pretender especially for it. It's not a bad idea as they do have the archers to do it, but I think there's better nations for it. However, the spells listed above that help hold the enemy army in one place and destroy their armor is pretty similar and easier to do.

[Saxon]

Sorry, no report on Wind Guide. I got Atlantis, Tein Chi and Helheim, each attacking on a different front and my game folded…

However, I did want to report that the Bandar infantry, the one with high protection due to amour, held up very well. I think I have been under rating them and in EA, they are an excellent unit. I was able to face down Helheim several times, even though their infantry is also excellent.

I also found the Luck and Body Ethereal spamming with the cheap mages to be quite effective for all classes of units. As I had the archers up front with the infantry, the spells hit everyone and in a close battle, it rapidly becomes apparent who has received the spell. It may be viable to use blessed infantry with awe and these support spells to good effect. Protection also seemed to take effect at longer ranges, which was helpful once the Hold in Hold and Attack was over.

The “slow them down” spells tended to be of limited value, as the range was short and I rarely had a mass casting of the spell. However, I did not get to experiment much with this and may have missed good spells.

Still looking for a solid strategy for this nation, particularly a good use of the cheap archers, suggestions welcome.